These things are loud

[Nevin]

I posted a week or so back asking advice for playing mandolin at a club with a rock oriented backline. The advice was geat and the club nicely provided an SM57 mic on a boom stand. The problem was when it came time for the one song on which I played mandolin, the sound guy forgot to turn on the mic. See previous coments about the stoner sound guy. Against amplified guitar, bass and vocals, and a pretty raucus crowd, my mandolin cut through and people were able to hear it. On an i-phone recording from the crowd it was there. Wow my little A style box puts out way more sound than I would have thought.

[High Lonesome Valley]

The stoner sound guy. That really doesn't narrow it down.

[bingoccc]

Being out in front of the holes is a huge difference. My acoustic instruments never cease to amaze me when I hear someone else play them for the first time.

[edandjudy3946]

yep - I thought my Silverangel F was loud and then I picked up my Martin to sing a song and Tom Nixon (owner Blue Ridge Music in Clayton Ga) picked up my mando to play along and I thought 'are you kidding me' Definitely louder out in front. and it wasn't even a "dig in" loud song.

[haggardphunk]

Nevin - what kind of A are you playing?

[Ivan Kelsall]

Hearing any instrument from 'the front' is a whole new thing than hearing it as a player. I've been amazed every time when somebody has played either my Weber or Lebeda for me. It's seems we're only hearing a small percentage of the output. Maybe somebody with an enquiring mind AND the equipment could actually measure the sound levels in front of & behind a selection of instruments for us. My banjo sounds hellishly loud from behind it,but in front it takes the plaster off the walls ( I really must stop hitting the walls with it !). My recent experience when a Classical mandolin player whom i know,played my Ellis "A" style for me 'quietly',made me understand just how really powerful it actually sounded from in front,
Ivan

[Ben Cooper]

Hearing any instrument from 'the front' is a whole new thing than hearing it as a player. I've been amazed every time when somebody has played either my Weber or Lebeda for me. It's seems we're only hearing a small percentage of the output. Maybe somebody with an enquiring mind AND the equipment could actually measure the sound levels in front of & behind a selection of instruments for us. My banjo sounds hellishly loud from behind it,but in front it takes the plaster off the walls ( I really must stop hitting the walls with it !). My recent experience when a Classical mandolin player whom i know,played my Ellis "A" style for me 'quietly',made me understand just how really powerful it actually sounded from in front,
Ivan

Sounds like a good idea, having someone do some measuring/comparing vis-a-vis sound/volume in front and sound/volume as a player. I have hheard a couple of iPhone recordings from when I have jammed with a friend locally. I did not think I was coming through or that I was close enough to the mic he had kindly set up. But when listening to the recordings, my Girouard A style cut through just fine. I need to "work" the mic a little more when he throws me a solo, but thats me.

[Frank Russell]

When I was doing a lot of trading, whenever I got a new mandolin in my hands, I would take it directly to my buddy, who was a pretty great luthier, and much better player than I was. He'd give me his opinion, which I valued, but I mostly was listening to what it sounded like out in front. He woud usually then do a quick setup if needed, which I've missed greatly since he moved away. Always surprising and instructive. I did have a similar experience in what I considered a loud, chaotic jam I used to attend, when a guest made a recording and played it back for us. I thought I was getting lost in the noise, but my mandolin was actually one of the loudest instruments in the mix, which included several guitar players, a fiddler, an electric bass (turned down to a respectful level, good guy), and a banjo. Definitely made me want to practice more and play better, hearing how prominent my mandolin sounded in the group. I had no idea. Frank

[Nevin]

Nevin - what kind of A are you playing?

It is a Kamico which was the name Kay went by for for one year in 1927, accoring to my research. I know Kay's don't get much love here but this one has a solid top that looks like spruce and a nice (also solid) mahogany back and sides. The original bar frets are still good. It could do with a neck re-set but with light gauge strings is quiet playable.

[Austin Bob]

This is a great topic, and an important thing for mandolin players to remember. Our instruments have the ability to cut through the noise and carry surprisingly well.

I try to constantly remind myself to focus on sound dynamics while playing. For me, this usually means playing softer on the verse and focus on supporting the singers to carry the melody, then crank it up a bit on the refrains and solos.

We sometimes make fun of banjo players because they've been known to DRIVE, DRIVE, DRIVE while playing, but we can be guilty of the very same crime, especially when playing with acoustic guitars that do not project nearly as well.

And yes, what we hear while playing can be completely different than what the audience hears.

[KEB]

I've seen some custom builds that have sound-holes on the sides designed to help the player hear what's coming out the front. Not sure how well those work or what the final product sounds like, but I've always wondered.

Most of us spend 100x as much time playing for ourselves than we do playing for others.

[Ivan Kelsall]

As a banjo player,i know 'absolutely' that banjos sound pretty loud from behind & in a band situation we have to back off to an extent or we could drown the whole band out - that's simple courtesy,& i wish more banjo players would observe that at times. Since coming to mandolin,i've realised that a mandolin has nothing like the 'rear' loudness of a banjo,but out front it can be a different matter. However,a couple of years back,i went to a local Folk Club (mainly Irish music) & had to compete with 2 Fiddles,a Piano Accordion,a Tenor banjo & 2 guitars. There was another mandolin player there as well with a Collings "A" style. We were sat about 10 feet away from each other but i couldn't hear him & he couldn't hear me.So,in some situations mandolins do come off worse,
Ivan

[edandjudy3946]

As a banjo player,i know 'absolutely' that banjos sound pretty loud from behind & in a band situation we have to back off to an extent or we could drown the whole band out - that's simple courtesy,& i wish more banjo players would observe that at times. Since coming to mandolin,i've realised that a mandolin has nothing like the 'rear' loudness of a banjo,but out front it can be a different matter. However,a couple of years back,i went to a local Folk Club (mainly Irish music) & had to compete with 2 Fiddles,a Piano Accordion,a Tenor banjo & 2 guitars. There was another mandolin player there as well with a Collings "A" style. We were sat about 10 feet away from each other but i couldn't hear him & he couldn't hear me.So,in some situations mandolins do come off worse,
Ivan

If a banjo player or whoever is THAT loud that I can't even hear myself I sometimes drop out. If asked why I can say, with a polite almost comical voice, the banjo was SO loud I couldn't hear what I was playing. They usually get the message without being offended. Short of that, get behind him and play ! We should be able to talk to each other and learn - about courtesy as well as the music.