Bill Monroe's 1964 F-5

[jochemgr]

Does anyone have any other photos of Bill Monroe's 1964 F-5?
Is it still in the Country Music Hall of Fame or did they take it elsewhere when they got the Loar?

[George R. Lane]

Uh. That is Jesse McReynolds, not Monroe

[jochemgr]

Haha, Whoops!!!
In that case I haven't been able to find any..

[f5loar]

Monroe's 1964 Gibson F5 that he recorded the tune "My Last Days on Earth" was donated not loaned to the CMHF right after he recorded that instrumental on Feb. 19, 1981. I was just at the CMHF last week and noticed it was no longer on display. In fact the whole little display case dedicated to bluegrass music artists was no longer there. They took out the Stanley's instruments and put them in another display. So they no longer pay tribute to other bluegrass artists like the Osbornes, Jim & Jesse, Flatt & Scruggs and others that were mentioned in the previous display on bluegrass. I am confident they still have the '64 F5 in the vault storage. They are displaying less than 1/4 of what they have in storage. I saw lots of wasted wall space. They need a new curator to figure out how to display more of the historical stuff they got stored. They have a complete Loar quintet of the F5,H5,K5 and L5 in the vault and don't bother to display it. I have seen several photos of Monroe on stage and off with his '64 F5. He used it mostly for the Get Up John tuning until he got his 2nd Loar in early 70's.

[jochemgr]

I can't believe they took all that stuff out! I've never been there but I've seen my dad's photos of the Loar which made me wonder about his 64. That's the kind of stuff I would like to see when I visit. Which in reality won't be very soon as I'm in Australia, but it's definitely on the to-do list.
I'd love to see a photo of Monroe with his '64 as it should look pretty similar to my F-5.

[Rob_Aitch]

Couple of photos from my visit to Nashville this time last year, not the best quality but best I could manage with the glass cases, lights etc

[Timbofood]

Beat me to it George!
Tom, does the removal of the bluegrass collection signal the "country music" industry's evolution and a desire to render it "no part of nuthin'"? Or, are they just moving things around and putting us in the back of the bus, so to speak?
I feel so priveliged to have seen so many of the "originators" of bluegrass music, there are so many of the new breed who never saw them, and they don't know what they missed! I remember my wife pulling me out of a great jam one time because she had not seen Bill Monroe but one time before! I was glad she did, Bill and Kenny were really ON that evening. I had her come back to see Ralph the next afternoon when Curly Ray Cline was having his normal fine time and Ralph was really playing at his top!
Sorry getting off track.

[Jeff Mando]

I thought Marty Stuart was involved with the CMHF. Not sure if he was the curator, but he was involved with acquiring instruments. I contacted him about 15 years ago about a Fender amp I had that had belonged to Luther Perkins, but he was not interested. Not sure if he is still involved with them.

[Willie Poole]

Sounds like they are just pushing bluegrass aside like they did on the radio, maybe people now days just aren`t interested in traditional bluegrass anymore...wonder where we can write letters to to let them know how we feel about being put on the back shelf..

Willie

[allenhopkins]

Problem with a lot of "Halls of Fame," more and more people get added and they have to make room for them. When it's not just a plaque or a picture, exhibits start competing for space -- up to the point where they add a new wing.

Don't know that the country music establishment is "anti-bluegrass," but it's a niche genre, has its own Hall of Fame, and is pretty irrelevant to commercial country, Ms. Krausse perhaps being the exception.

We jump up and down when a mandolin even appears at a country music event. Norman Blake once reportedly said, about recording in Nashville, that "you pull out a mandolin, and they act like you pulled out a rattlesnake." IMHO we should stop worrying about what the Nashville country tycoons think about bluegrass, mandolins, etc.

Country music is pop music, by and large, and pretty much irrelevant to me. That's just the way it is, as Mr. Hornsby sang.

[pheffernan]

Country music is pop music, by and large, and pretty much irrelevant to me. That's just the way it is, as Mr. Hornsby sang.

And who better to speak to the state of modern bluegrass than its foremost pianist?

[Jeff Mando]

Country Music, as such, has been going in an "uptown" direction for almost 50 years, starting with the so-called "Countrypolitan" sound of Chet Atkins produced smooth singers against a background of Floyd Cramer on piano and the Anita Kerr singers providing background vocals--Jim Reeves, Eddy Arnold, and even a young Waylon Jennings are examples of trying to make country music more "Pop". When Dwight Yoakam first was discovered, he stated in early interviews that Chet Atkins was single-handledly responsible for ruining country music, of course he was saying that to get himself noticed, more than likely. But, the movement away from the bib overalls and cowboy hats has been going on a long time. Now, it is just shifting to more of a rock'n'roll version of country. Well, I guess that is a rehash, too, of the Eagles, Gram Parsons, Byrds, etc.....Bluegrass probably will never be mainstream, but still gets out there every once in a while, with movie soundtracks and period music, Beverly Hillbillies, Bonnie & Clyde, Deliverance, Oh, Brother, Where Art Thou, etc, ........and of course, all the hybrid concoctions....

[SCIFIDELITY]

Monroe's 1964 Gibson F5 that he recorded the tune "My Last Days on Earth" was donated not loaned to the CMHF right after he recorded that instrumental on Feb. 19, 1981. I was just at the CMHF last week and noticed it was no longer on display. In fact the whole little display case dedicated to bluegrass music artists was no longer there. They took out the Stanley's instruments and put them in another display. So they no longer pay tribute to other bluegrass artists like the Osbornes, Jim & Jesse, Flatt & Scruggs and others that were mentioned in the previous display on bluegrass. I am confident they still have the '64 F5 in the vault storage. They are displaying less than 1/4 of what they have in storage. I saw lots of wasted wall space. They need a new curator to figure out how to display more of the historical stuff they got stored. They have a complete Loar quintet of the F5,H5,K5 and L5 in the vault and don't bother to display it. I have seen several photos of Monroe on stage and off with his '64 F5. He used it mostly for the Get Up John tuning until he got his 2nd Loar in early 70's.

Seriously? they took out his original "recontructed" F5?! That is such a shame. This is why I value sites like this so much...we need to preserve this music and it's history for the coming generations!

[f5loar]

Seriously? they took out his original "recontructed" F5?! That is such a shame. This is why I value sites like this so much...we need to preserve this music and it's history for the coming generations!

Not sure what you mean by "reconstructed F5". The 1923 reconstructed from splinters F5 is still there. They removed the 1964 F5 which was never reconstructed. Pretty much standard stock '64 F5. When the '23 F5 came there it got it's own special separate showcase. The '64 F5 was in a large case with other bluegrass instruments. I've got a photo of the old display somewhere.

[Ivan Kelsall]

I'd much rather Bill's 'main axe',along with memorabilia of other great Bluegrass musicians resided in the Bluegrass Music Museum rather than in the CMHF.To me it just seems a more fitting & more appropriate place.
Last Friday on UK TV,we had a programme '' How Nashville became Music City USA''.
It seems that the Grand Ole Opry had nothing to offer prior to the 1960's, leastways,that how it came out. All the musicians that had played there in the previous 35 years,including Bill Monroe,Flatt & Scruggs,The Stanley Bros. etc.,weren't even mentioned. It seems to have been forgotten that these musicians kept the Opry alive for the 'Nudie Suit' brigade. Ultimately it was pretty apparent that most of the Opry stars were far more interested in the money than the music.Ok,you have to make a living,but from acts such as the early Hank Williams ,Dolly Parton / Porter Wagoner era,it was a slippery slope downwards (IMHO),
Ivan

[Willie Poole]

I have noticed a lot of times that when a commercial comes on TV they use bluegrass music, namely a banjo, as an intro, I guess it gets peoples attention more quickly than a steel guitar would.....

I agree with Ivan that bluegrass items should be kept and shown at their own bluegrass museum, country music has made it apparent that we are not a part of them any more, the "Hillbilly Music" days are over, its time to separate, I used to see both bluegrass and country played at shows and festivals but not any more, its rare now that bluegrass even gets shown on The Opry these days..

Willie

[Hudmister]

I used to see both bluegrass and country played at shows and festivals but not any more, its rare now that bluegrass even gets shown on The Opry these days..

Willie

Bluegrass maintains a tradition and the quality of the music and todays pickers remains high. Country music has gone pop, cheap pandering to the youth market with sexual overtones to compete in todays radio and concert market. Who wants to spoil good bluegrass with some contrived country act coming on the same stage.

[f5loar]

The ones on display now: Monroe's '23 F5 belongs to the CMHF until a judge rules otherwise. The Lester Flatt D28 guitar with big pickguard belongs to Marty Stuart and on loan. The Earl Scruggs Granada still owned by the Scruggs boys and on loan. I don't see any way of getting Monroe's F5 to IBMA Museum in Owensboro unless they allow it on a short loan. As far as the Opry, it was really the early 50's to mid 60's that saw the big growth of Country Artists. Little Jimmy started there in 1948 and he's still there but there is only a handful of the 60's members that are still there. There are some 50's artists still living but no longer members.

[Timbofood]

Tom, is Marty's D-28 the "L-5" Mike Longworth "28"to "45" conversion?
That is a story I can't remember where I heard the root of but, maybe you can "repair my brain" about that.... Please?
Am I just a complete nut job, wait....

[f5loar]

It is the Longworth L5 but it's not a 28 to 45 conversion. It's just a fancy inlayed neck on a standard 1950 D28 with oversized pickguard.

[f5loar]

Okay will try to post 2 photos I made of Monroe's 1964 F5 as displayed in the CMHF. Photo on left taken in 2005 at new CMHF before they ripped it down, on right is photo taken in 1986 at the old CMHF. Note lighting/flash make the color of the sunburst look different. It's more like the one on the left. It bears the serial number 181350.

[Ivan Kelsall]

I agree with what Willie says regarding the 'separation' of 'Country Music' (or 'whatever' it's become) from Bluegrass. Unless you're a 'cross over'' artist like Marty Stuart,i don't think we're welcome at the party these days. I doubt whether it's a prevalent way of thinking,but here's one guy's thoughts on it - http://youtu.be/wtoYRYOT9dQ
I know that there are a lot of Trad.Bluegrassers who don't care for the direction being taken by some bands,but IMHO,those bands are far more attached to their 'true' Bluegrass roots than the huge majority of 'so called' 'Country ' artists. It also amazes me that singers such as Merle Haggard & a few others, use Bluegrass as a means of trying to boost their popularity amongst Bluegrass fans,when IMHO (again),the results are usually pathetic - ''Mama's Hungry Eyes'' - gimme a break !!!!!!,
Ivan

[AlanN]

A bit of the country vibe infiltrates bluegrass, look at Rhonda V. She 'looks' country (as does her bus), even though the music is grass, grass-like.

[Timbofood]

Thanks Tom, I don't know where I got the idea it was a"conversion" maybe I just saw the added flash and made the assumption.

[jochemgr]

It took me a while but I finally located a photo of Bill Monroe with his 1964. Thought I'd share it here as others might enjoy it too. Needless to say it was on this very forum that I finally found it! The shot is from 1969 so it appears he left his pickguard on for the first 5 years at least.