Fretwork on a Loar F5

[Hendrik Ahrend]

Just watched that "23 Loar Setup" (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...ar-Setup-Video). Is there a general consensus how to go about the decision whether to refile/reshape worn-out frets or to replace them - on an original Loar? In the first case one would have to refile the nut slots (on a possibly original nut). On the other hand, when replacing frets, one probably loses some of the old fingerboard. What's your experience and approach?
Check out Paul Hostetter's interesting fret wire chart website (http://www.lutherie.net/fret.chart.html): "milling as a routine maintenance procedure is so, um, Sixties. When you do it, you lower all the frets to the lowest point of the most worn fret, and in most instances, that’s just a few frets. All you accomplish in milling old frets is a look, at the expense of a lot of fret life and increase playing difficulty, for no good reason. I'd like to think the state of the art has advanced some since then."

Cheers,
Henry

[multidon]

Henry your Hostetter link is not working for me.

[bigbendhiker]

Try this link:

http://www.lutherie.net/fret.chart.html

[Timbofood]

Sadly Henry, that most likely will never be an issue for me. But, if it should happen, I would have a lengthy chat with Bill Halsey. He "gets" the concept.
I suppose of they were really worn badly, I would replace them.
As for the nut...I think the same would apply.
I would love to have that particular headache, I have the regular headaches which go along with being unemployed, right now, that's enough.

[PJ Doland]

Don't those things almost always have incorrect fret placement in the first place?

[pfox14]

On an instrument of that magnitude, I would try to save the original frets with a re-level and re-file. If the frets are in OK condition, then re-level & re-crown should only lower them fractions of a millimeter, so deepening the nut slots really shouldn't be an issue. Pix of the fretboard would be very helpful.

[Atlanta Mando Mike]

I would take off the fingerboard all together and save it as is, probably same as the nut. Then I would replace it, re fret, and go from there. Still have the original stuff for a later sale if needed but it will play right and intonate better with a new fingerboard and frets.

[John Adrihan]

I would take off the fingerboard all together and save it as is, probably same as the nut. Then I would replace it, re fret, and go from there. Still have the original stuff for a later sale if needed but it will play right and intonate better with a new fingerboard and frets.

I would agree with this. If you can afford a Loar then you can afford this approach. If you play it at all at some point the frets will have to be replaced. If the instrument is just sitting there and not being played that is a shame.

[Hendrik Ahrend]

Thanks to all of you.
Aside from my own little things, such as making a bridge or a nut now and then, I'm not a mandolin repair person, but a pipe organ builder and restorer, most of our "clients" being from around 1700. I'm always interested in different ideas of monument preservation in general, especially when important instruments, such as Loar F5s, are involved. And I'm aware that you always lose a little bit of material - "information" rather - as soon as you work on an old instrument.
Fashions have changed somewhat. When Bill Monroe's Loar received a new fingerboard in the early '70s, the old one was merely tossed on the ground, and some other guy picked it up and saved it.
In that respect, I can relate to Atlanta Mando Mike's idea. BTW there is a great book on instrument restoration by John Watson, scientist working for the Colonial Williamsburg Foundation: Artifacts in Use; the paradox of Restoration and the Conservation of Organs. http://www.preservationtheory.org/aiu.htm

Greetings,
Hendrik

[Loudloar]

I agree that milling the frets is a bad idea. When they get bad enough, replacement is in order.

The other issue is that Loar-era fret wire has a harder alloy formula than new nickel fret wire, so new frets will wear out faster. Fortunately stainless steel fret wire is now available in the correct size for vintage mandolins. Stainless should last for a very long time, minimizing future damage to the fingerboard.

Steve

[Michael Lewis]

Some of us repair folk have saved frets from old Gibsons of the period, and can replace worn frets with original fret material. The higher frets are longer and seldom worn much at all. I would suggest this approach for anyone wanting to keep their instrument in absolutely 'original' condition, most likely to retain value for future sale. If however, if the instrument is to be seriously played I would suggest modern fret material and likely a new fingerboard if the original one is inaccurately cut.

[sunburst]

Despite the lofty prices and esteem surrounding LL mandolins, brought on by history, rarity and quality (perhaps in that order?), they are just mandolins when we get right down to it. I treat fret work on Loars the same as fret work on any quality instrument; I do the best I can each time.
I've done partial re-frets using replica fret wire, I've replaced frets (not original frets) with different sizes at the request of the owner, and I've lightly milled and re-crowned Loar frets. Also, like Michael, I've accumulated a stash of original old fret wire from ruined instruments, old tenor banjo necks and such, so If a Loar owner wants to pay for them, I can use them.
If through some strange occurrence I suddenly owned a LL mandolins myself and the frets were not in good shape? I'd re-fret or partially re-fret it with salvaged frets and leave it at that. I would not remove the 'board and replace it with a more accurately fretted one. Intonation can be adjusted to "close enough" even with some fret errors, and any time that type of work is done there is always a risk of damage, however slight it may be.

(It's "funny" how the feeling of reverence, of holding some fragile historic relic, goes away after hitting a Loar a few times with a fretting hammer! The feeling of respect stays, though, just like it does with anyone's instrument on the bench.)

[Hendrik Ahrend]

Monumental preservation seems to stem from our problem with mortality.

John, I see your point. Keep the fret board on, and you'll have the additional benefit of playing on an original Loar fretboard.