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Thread: eBay seller refuses return - what would you do?

  1. #1
    Registered User Seonachan's Avatar
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    Default eBay seller refuses return - what would you do?

    Hi all,

    I'm looking for some advice. I recently bought this Flatiron mandola off ebay. According to the description and pics it was very clean other than a mar on the headstock. But it arrived in a F mandolin hard case, barely fit it lengthwise. I had to tug at it a couple of times to get it out. And now it has finish cracks all over it. I requested a return (even providing a link to pics of the cracks), but the seller refused. Amusingly, he stated that he received the mandola shipped in the same case and it didn't have any cracks (thus admitting there weren't any before shipping it to me).

    So, do I go through the hassle of filing a claim through ebay, or is it worth keeping? If it's just cosmetic I don't mind so much, though I'm concerned about resale value. But I'm also worried the time spent wedged in the case like that may result in structural damage down the line.

    Advice appreciated.

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  2. #2

    Default Re: eBay seller refuses return - what would you do?

    To alleviate your present and the possibility of future consternation, I advise proceeding to formal action; based on the info provided, it doesn't appear likely that seller will be of much help. Part of successful transactions of musical instruments includes proper packing and shipping method (and honesty).

    FWIW, I would always inquire specifically about details of packing and shipping involving any valued instrument--prior to payment.

  3. #3

    Default Re: eBay seller refuses return - what would you do?

    Finish cracks, also known as lacquer checking, are usually caused by going from cold weather to warm weather and thus "shocking" the finish. My guess (if the checks weren't there before he sent it) is that the instrument sat for hours or days in a cold warehouse or truck and then when you brought it inside and opened it the finish cracked, due to the difference in temperatures. Usually I let an instrument warm up for several hours before opening the case, if it has been in my vehicle for a long time in cold weather. I've seen the finish of instruments crack before my eyes at guitar shows when dealers are unloading and setting up for display. It has a lot to do with the formulation of the finish, also. I don't believe the case was the cause, in my opinion.

  4. #4
    Registered User mandotool's Avatar
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    Default Re: eBay seller refuses return - what would you do?

    he has to take it back..contact ebay..you pay the shipping+ insurance
    Thomas Quinn

  5. #5
    Registered User Seonachan's Avatar
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    Default Re: eBay seller refuses return - what would you do?

    Thanks Jeff, I realize I made an assumption that the cracks were caused by the case and wondered about that. The worst cracks being around the neck at the heel and headstock ends made me think it wasn't just weather-related. I did let it sit a couple hours before opening it. Is it normal for finish checking to be deep enough to catch a fingernail on?

    If the checking is unrelated and innocuous, should I still be concerned about the time spent wedged in a small case?

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    Default Re: eBay seller refuses return - what would you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seonachan View Post
    .. or is it worth keeping? If it's just cosmetic I don't mind so much
    Bummer. I feel your pain. Recently had a luthier fubar the finish on a repair and it plays nice but resell is shot.

    How does it play and sound?

  7. #7
    MandolaViola bratsche's Avatar
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    Default Re: eBay seller refuses return - what would you do?

    I agree with Jeff Mando. The type of finish cracking you describe wouldn't be likely to come from a tightly fitting case, but more likely from a fast temperature change.

    And just FWIW, I have a very similar mandola, but it's the IN version (natural). The finish was so thick and ugly to me that I hated it for so long, until I stripped and re-finished it myself much more lightly. (You can probably tell I don't give two hoots about resale. LOL)

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  8. #8

    Default Re: eBay seller refuses return - what would you do?

    As a long time eBay seller of 15 years and 3000+ feedbacks, I would first check the photos in his ad and see if the cracking can be seen. If he did not disclose the cracks, that can be grounds for a return, but looks like he says they weren't there. The cracks are just cosmetic and do not affect anything, but you may not want a instrument like that. If you file a claim with eBay, you will get a full refund, minus your return shipping cost, which you will have to pay. eBay always sides with the buyer, so you have that on your side. Question is, was it the seller's fault? Hard to say. He can't control the weather or the seasons, can he? A couple times a year I have a customer return something for issues that were not my fault and in order to remain a seller with eBay I have to accept their rules and take the return. It stings, but I figure that is the cost of doing business, as they say. Good luck with your decision.

  9. #9

    Default Re: eBay seller refuses return - what would you do?

    Of course the finish cracking is particularly associated with temp fluctuations--which could have resulted during transit. This is why you should register the problem--which provides you recourse should it be determined that carrier produced the damage, and you decide that it bothers you. FWIW, based on your description--the case did not fit it; is a pair of shoes into which you cram your toes--fitting?

    Unless, you just want to play it and not worry about it. Your decision, but you can always cancel your claim if you decide to just accept it.

  10. #10
    two t's and one hyphen fatt-dad's Avatar
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    Default Re: eBay seller refuses return - what would you do?

    my pancake has so many finish cracks! I don't worry about them at all. Mines an '84 and I love it!

    f-d
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  12. #11
    Registered User Seonachan's Avatar
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    Default Re: eBay seller refuses return - what would you do?

    Yep, I've been on both ends of ebay scuffle before, and I know I can win a claim, but if it's a) cosmetic only and b) solely weather-induced, then I'll live with it. I can't blame the seller for living in California.

    I like the dola otherwise - tons of sustain. I'm not crazy about the tone, but that might be due to the flatwounds, which I've never experienced before (my fingers are slipping all over the place [but quietly!]). I don't know that mandola is for me though, which is why resale value is on my mind.

    BTW there was no checking evident in the original listing, though the pics are dark.

  13. #12

    Default Re: eBay seller refuses return - what would you do?

    Since he refuses a Return you can file your claim with Ebay and request a FULL refund - the Ebay Refund should cover your shipping too. It's only when the Seller honors a Return that you are stuck with shipping...

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    Default Re: eBay seller refuses return - what would you do?

    Sez in the listing "seller does NOT offer returns" so there you go.
    Jean

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    Registered User Seonachan's Avatar
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    Default Re: eBay seller refuses return - what would you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by catmandu2 View Post
    Of course the finish cracking is particularly associated with temp fluctuations--which could have resulted during transit. This is why you should register the problem--which provides you recourse should it be determined that carrier produced the damage, and you decide that it bothers you. FWIW, based on your description--the case did not fit it; is a pair of shoes into which you cram your toes--fitting?
    I'm holding off an a decision for now, but I'm mostly concerned with any possible weakening/future damage to the neck, body or headstock. I guess there's also the issue of not having a case for it (I've got it in a spare baritone uke bag for now), and a mandolin case I don't need (though I can always sell that).

  16. #15
    Registered User Seonachan's Avatar
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    Default Re: eBay seller refuses return - what would you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jean Fugal View Post
    Sez in the listing "seller does NOT offer returns" so there you go.
    Yes but that only applies to returns for a change of mind, etc. All sellers on eBay agree to the terms that allow buyers to return damaged/not-as-described goods.

  17. #16

    Default Re: eBay seller refuses return - what would you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jean Fugal View Post
    Sez in the listing "seller does NOT offer returns" so there you go.
    That's good then. Send Ebay the pics of the cracks, say the Seller will not take it back and ask for a full Ebay Refund since instrument is not as described. Since you are sure that you did not put the cracks in it...

  18. #17

    Default Re: eBay seller refuses return - what would you do?

    Was it insured? Maybe you could make a claim with the company that actually shipped it? UPS damaged a Gibson guitar I shipped once (Not my fault! VERY well packed but someone opened it and played around with it at UPS.) Anyway, they paid.
    Proud owner of a Breedlove Premier Series Limited Edition FF!

  19. #18

    Default Re: eBay seller refuses return - what would you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seonachan View Post
    BTW there was no checking evident in the original listing, though the pics are dark.
    Sometimes I will brighten my monitor settings on my computer to show more details. Sometimes simply tilting the screen will show additional details.

  20. #19
    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: eBay seller refuses return - what would you do?

    If it's a question of getting your money back, open the claim WITH EBAY, and NOT with the shipper. UPS and Postal Service insurance claims take a lot longer than the eBay process, and if the shipper can find any excuse to deny your claim, they'll do it.

    In cold-weather situations I advise letting the box sit indoors for 24 hours before you open it. Two hours isn't long enough.
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  21. #20

    Default Re: eBay seller refuses return - what would you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by CSIMelissa View Post
    Was it insured? Maybe you could make a claim with the company that actually shipped it? UPS damaged a Gibson guitar I shipped once (Not my fault! VERY well packed but someone opened it and played around with it at UPS.) Anyway, they paid.
    Forget the Shipper. That's up to the Seller if he wants to do that, since the shipping contract/insurance is in his name. Your only recourse here is with EBAY.

  22. #21
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    Default Re: eBay seller refuses return - what would you do?

    As all have said file the claim and go from there if you wait it doesn't help your case.
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    Default Re: eBay seller refuses return - what would you do?

    I would say that the item was not described well enough to form an opinion about what is and what is not reasonable condition for "used" If they are just finish cracks I would tend to accept them as normal. In a case is different than original case or mandola case. I once got a banjo in a guitar case, It was a fair price and I didn't expect new. Usually if the seller sez' no returns, I shy away from the deal. Good luck to you whatever you chose.
    Jean

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  24. #23
    Registered User Seonachan's Avatar
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    Default Re: eBay seller refuses return - what would you do?

    Thanks everyone for the input. Just to be clear, I'm not interested in returning it because of the finish cracks, given the consensus that they came about due to weather and not the stress of the tight case fit. I'm annoyed at not having a hard case for it, but I'm not sure that I'd want to pursue a return for that reason alone. But if there's any chance its structural integrity was compromised by the time spent in that case, then I do want to return it. If anyone could speak to that risk, even in general terms, I'd appreciate it.

    Given that I first pursued a "return request", I have until Nov 20 to settle that with the seller, at which point ebay will allow me to submit a claim.

    Oh, and while I was busy photographing and uploading etc. my dog ate my brand new winter hat. Maybe I should just go to bed and start over in the morning

  25. #24

    Default Re: eBay seller refuses return - what would you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by mrmando View Post
    If it's a question of getting your money back, open the claim WITH EBAY, and NOT with the shipper. UPS and Postal Service insurance claims take a lot longer than the eBay process, and if the shipper can find any excuse to deny your claim, they'll do it.
    Well, it is a question of who caused the damage, not which is easier. If the shipper is at fault, the seller should not be responsible for that. (not saying that is the case here, don't know) As a seller, I get that with buyers not wanting to wait and take the easy route and file the claim with eBay, rather than the shipper. I call that "being slick" and not being honest. As a seller, I insure shipments for that reason, damage can occur. If a buyer sends the instrument back to me, I am stuck with a damaged instrument, I cannot sell. I think most people would agree, that a $1000 return is not something I can "absorb" as a small time seller. $1000 will disrupt my month, for sure. (I absorb $25-100 returns, all the time, rather than fill out a bunch of paperwork) And you are correct, the shipper will deny any reponsibility and say it is your fault, either the buyer or the seller. If you do get a refund, it will take a minumum of 30 days, probably months, in actual practice. So, I see why people take the easy route.

  26. #25
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: eBay seller refuses return - what would you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seonachan View Post
    I did let it sit a couple hours before opening it.
    Was the box cold to the touch, or the case, or the instrument?

    I once had to wait a lot longer that a couple hours, maybe as much as 7 or 8 before I took out the instrument. I let the box sit until it was room temperature, then I let the case sit until it was at room temperature. Even then the instrument was cool to the touch, and I dared not take it out of the case and tune it up until it was. I thought maybe it was left outside over night somewhere.

    Im really sorry. If the cracks are just finish cracks, there should not be any structural concerns.
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