Gibson Mandolin Family Instruments

[Tom Coletti]

Most people who have meandered through the ins and outs of eBay will have seen the wide variety of models offered in Gibson's past: the utilitarian but venerable pumpkin-top A1s, the black A2s, the white A3s, the red burst A4s, the three-point F2s and gorgeous red F4s, the H-series mandolas with their beautifully-upsized proportions and thicker scroll on the H4, and the K-series mandocellos and great leviathans of the K4s, all in all a wide variety of woods, colors, and sounds.

But it seems like the only eight-stringers to come out of Gibson's factory now are brown sunburst F5 mandolins in maple, with the occasional A5, A9, F9, or Gold Rush, but either way, no oval holes or family instruments in sight from what I could find. Is it just a matter of demand? Or that odd saturated market situation with Martin where the greatest competition for a new Martin mandolin is an old Martin mandolin? Or something else?

--Tom

[Marty Jacobson]

[multidon]

My guess would be that Gibson has decided to stick to building mandolins that have the greatest profit margins. They evidently could not build an A style at a price point with sufficient profit margin to be able to compete with imports. The F styles in sunburst are sure sells driven by the demand for something that looks like what Bill played. They could of course make any colors they choose, like Marty's blue example, but the sunburst color scheme is an icon and a formula for success they just don't want to stray too far from. I am actually a little surprised they still do the Goldrush, gorgeous but out of the norm for most.

[jochemgr]

I think the average Gibson mandolin buyers is pretty conservative in their taste and prefer a sunburst over something radically new. That includes myself. Also they're not cheap, which luckily rules out a pink Hello Kitty signature model.

That blue F-5G pictured above or the goldtop one that's for sale on Gbase are good examples to me why most of them are sunburst!
Didn't they make some with the US flag on it shortly after 9/11 as well?

[jochemgr]

Giving this some second thought, I think Gibson is very aware of having a conservative mandolin-buying customer base and they willingly use this in their marketing with it by establishing themselves as the original and returning as much as possible to their holy grail, the Loar F-5, rather than using plastics/composites, smartwoods, new funky shapes or anything else inventive that does not bring their model closer to the old ones. The only new-ish changes have been to trim them down and make it more affordable to have a wider market. Like for instance the Jam Master having a silkscreen "The Gibson" rather than the inlays on a 12 year old F-9.

[Tom Coletti]

Giving this some second thought, I think Gibson is very aware of having a conservative mandolin-buying customer base and they willingly use this in their marketing with it by establishing themselves as the original and returning as much as possible to their holy grail, the Loar F-5, rather than using plastics/composites, smartwoods, new funky shapes or anything else inventive that does not bring their model closer to the old ones. The only new-ish changes have been to trim them down and make it more affordable to have a wider market. Like for instance the Jam Master having a silkscreen "The Gibson" rather than the inlays on a 12 year old F-9.

I'm not surprised that there isn't a new hypoallergenic gluten free wheat grass back & sides option with plaid-mauve-plaid triple binding and a headstock that looks like Alfred Hitchcock's silhouette, as that would be imprudent. I am, however, surprised that in their return to the "originals," none of the classic instruments from the 'teens have been revisited, especially with the higher prices and greater scarcity of Gibsons in good condition from 1902-1922 and overall scarcity of mandolas and mandocellos to start with.

--Tom

[mrmando]

There are dozens of old oval-hole Gibsons being offered for sale every day. They are well made and have survived a century and will probably survive another one. I think it's probably true that Gibson can't build a new oval-hole mandolin that competes on price with an old one.

[jochemgr]

I am, however, surprised that in their return to the "originals," none of the classic instruments from the 'teens have been revisited, especially with the higher prices and greater scarcity of Gibsons in good condition from 1902-1922 and overall scarcity of mandolas and mandocellos to start with.

Is Gibson able to build mandolins fast enough to supply the current demand? Main reason I ask is that it seems to be near impossible to find any Jam Masters which seem to be pretty popular. They may not have the time or manpower at the moment to increase their catalogue and focus on supplying their current orders.
I'm just speculating, I have no inside information on this whatsoever!

[Tobin]

I think it has been fairly well established that Gibson as a company isn't that interested in mandolins today. They keep the mandolin custom shop open just for the sake of novelty, I suppose, but not because they see it as a serious money-making venture. Their focus is guitars, and has been for a long time. With the F5 (in all its variations) being by far the most popular mandolin model, it's no surprise that this is what they focus on in the mandolin shop. Recreating A styles, F2s and F4s, etc., would cost them some money and time in the tooling and production process. They could do it if they wanted to. But they (the company, not necessarily the mandolin shop employees) don't want to. Because mandolins are just a pet product line to them.

[multidon]

Tobin, is the mandolin department actually called a custom shop? Can you actually call them up and have a one off made just for you?

It wouldn't be the first time Gibson played fast and loose with the Custom Shop term. Not long ago the factory in Memphis where all the semi hollow and hollow body guitars are made was called a Custom Shop. Now they have backpedaled and now guitars coming out of there are called Gibson Memphis. I am the owner of an R8 Les Paul from Gibson Custom. A fine guitar but certainly not a one off.

In terms of profit I am sure the mandolin shop is an insignificant part of the big picture. But it would have to turn a profit or I feel sure they would shut it down.

[DataNick]

Tobin, is the mandolin department actually called a custom shop? Can you actually call them up and have a one off made just for you?...

Don,

You place your order/custom order thru The Mandolin Store via Dennis Vance.

[DataNick]

Is Gibson able to build mandolins fast enough to supply the current demand? Main reason I ask is that it seems to be near impossible to find any Jam Masters which seem to be pretty popular...

The flood and legal problems with the moniker "Jam Master" ended production of that line. You see them pop up here and there. There was one hangin around the classifieds a couple of weeks ago; I think that was maybe the 2nd I've seen this year (2014)

Their owners tend to hold onto them...

[MikeEdgerton]

In the past the general consensus has been that you could buy the original A and F-2 models in decent condition for much less than Gibson could afford to sell a new one for. They could I guess take a page from Gretsch that now sells Harmony mandolin copies for more than the original Harmony models sell for on eBay. Mandolins are not Gibson's highest priority and I'm sure they are going where the money is (as they should).

[foldedpath]

It's tempting to go with the explanation that the large number of still playable old Gibson A's would cannibalize sales. But that doesn't explain why they haven't expanded into the other CBOM niches. Weber is the only small factory making those "big Gibson" instruments now. Maybe they just don't feel it would be worth competing with Weber for such a small market.

It's a large corporation making decisions at the top, after all. Look at what they've done, or rather haven't done, with their ownership of the Dobro brand name. They could have followed the lead of the modern National Resophonic company in resurrecting the National brand, and instead they've left it to die on the vine. The Dobro name has now dropped off the Gibson web site completely, so it looks like they've finally killed it stone dead.

They're just not interested in niche markets like this, when they can sell a gazillion expensive planks of wood labeled "Les Paul." Even their acoustic guitar line seems like an afterthought at this point. I'm sure it's a combination of pressure from good bang-for-buck offshore instruments at the bottom, and an incentive to focus on the main thing the company is known for, which for most players these days is just a few iconic electric guitar models. Fender is in the same boat, and acting the same way.

In that respect, I think it's amazing that they're still actually making mandolins at all. That may not last, especially as the Boomer demographic and its spending power for high-end acoustic instruments winds down in the next few years.

Tobin, is the mandolin department actually called a custom shop? Can you actually call them up and have a one off made just for you?

It wouldn't be the first time Gibson played fast and loose with the Custom Shop term. Not long ago the factory in Memphis where all the semi hollow and hollow body guitars are made was called a Custom Shop. Now they have backpedaled and now guitars coming out of there are called Gibson Memphis. I am the owner of an R8 Les Paul from Gibson Custom. A fine guitar but certainly not a one off.

I think there was always an understanding among guitar players that Gibson was playing a bit loose with that term. I have a Gibson Custom Shop guitar too: a Pat Martino electric (basically a semihollow LP with a snakehead), bought off the rack years ago, at a guitar store that happened to have it in stock. I knew I wasn't getting a "custom" guitar, it was just Gibson's term for limited edition models.

[multidon]

Agree with almost everything you say, foldedpath, with the exception of calling the Les Paul model an "expensive plank of wood".

Well, they ARE expensive. But a plank of wood? A Telecaster. Now THERE'S a plank of wood!

There can be little doubt that the Les Paul in all its myriad incarnations is the cash cow. But I would be shocked to find out that they lose money on anything.

[catmandu2]

Well, I think he means that, colloquially--comparatively next to an acoustic instrument--an electric is basically a "plank" (known as a "slab" in the contrabass lexicon) into which you insert electronic components - additionally, both a term of reverence, as well as ironic reference to its iconic stature/image

Aren't Gibson still doing banjos?

[foldedpath]

Agree with almost everything you say, foldedpath, with the exception of calling the Les Paul model an "expensive plank of wood".

Well, they ARE expensive. But a plank of wood? A Telecaster. Now THERE'S a plank of wood!

Heh... there was some tongue-in-cheek going on there. And I like Tele's... that was my main guitar back in my Blues Bar Band days.

[Tom Coletti]

Aren't Gibson still doing banjos?

Gibson makes a number of flathead ring 5-strings, and similarly, no plectrums, tenors, archtop rings, etc., which is a shame because all of the good vintage Gibson tenors are being converted, with their 4-string necks going who-knows-where in many cases.

--Tom

[Tobin]

Tobin, is the mandolin department actually called a custom shop? Can you actually call them up and have a one off made just for you?

No, you can't just call Gibson and have them make you a custom one-off mandolin. I honestly don't know if they will do a one-off, but if they did, it would have to be ordered through a dealer as DataNick mentioned.

I stand to be corrected if this is inaccurate, but I used the term "custom shop" because they are making mandolins in the Gibson Custom Shop in Nashville ever since the flood of 2010. A goodly portion of their manufacturing was moved there post-flood, either temporarily or permanently. I believe this building was at one time an actual custom shop, but nowadays they just do standard products and the facility retained its name.

Ironically, all their current standard mandolin models are called "custom".

[catmandu2]

... a shame because all of the good vintage Gibson tenors are being converted, with their 4-string necks going who-knows-where in many cases.

As a player of both plectrum and tenor (and not bluegrass), this practice irks the beejeezus out of me. (I also play club diatonique accordion--also out of fashion...it's now de rigueur for box players to "de-club" [re-tune] these wonderful boxes to make them more tenable for playing with "standard" 2-row technique)

SAVE THE INSTRUMENTS!

[Ken Waltham]

I think it is also important to realize that the type of music that those other Gibson instruments played has long ago died. There is really no need for a mando cello or even really a mandola now. Styles have changed, and unfortunately these Gibson family instruments hold little interest outside of a collector mindset. Who would ever consider playing a mando bass unless you were involved in a mandolin orchestra?
I wish this was not the case, but, I am afraid that's reality. The upside is that there are so many vintage examples to choose from, due the the huge heyday of the orchestral mandolin family instruments.

[Tom Coletti]

I think it is also important to realize that the type of music that those other Gibson instruments played has long ago died. There is really no need for a mando cello or even really a mandola now.

--Tom

[sgarrity]

They're a niche market within a small market that has low demand and high supply. FWIW, Gibson under Dave Harvey has built one or two mandocellos based on the L5 guitar.

[SincereCorgi]

I think it is also important to realize that the type of music that those other Gibson instruments played has long ago died. There is really no need for a mando cello or even really a mandola now. Styles have changed, and unfortunately these Gibson family instruments hold little interest outside of a collector mindset.

I have a nagging feeling that if Gibson did build a mandola, it would cost $25,000 and be called the Theophilus Gibson Centennial Memorial Edition and they'd only make them for a year and a half.

[Tobin]

There is really no need for a mando cello or even really a mandola now.

Say what?!

Weber, Kimble, Eastman and others do a fine business selling brand-new mandolas. They still serve a very relevant 'need' by players. They are obviously not as popular as they once were, or as the mandolin is now, but to say there is "no need" for them is, quite frankly, rubbish.