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Thread: Collings MT - Top wood grain feature looks like a smudge?

  1. #1
    Registered User Matt Livingston's Avatar
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    Default Collings MT - Top wood grain feature looks like a smudge?

    I recently acquired a used Collings MT. Plays and sounds great. The top has a feature in the wood that I've not seen before. The grain of the wood seems to have a circular pattern in some places. Almost a smudge, rather than lines running in parallel. This seems to happen in bands about 1-2 cm wide running the length of the top. One on the treble side and one on the bass side, but not exactly symetrical. I see the same thing on an MT shown on the Collings website. Any explanations?

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  2. #2
    wood butcher Spruce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Collings MT - Top wood grain feature looks like a smudge?

    Yeah, those are medullary rays in the spruce, and denote that at that point in the arching, your wood is dead-on quarter...
    Not 1-2 degrees out, but dead-on...
    Like so: IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

    ...and it's a good thing...

    As the arching moves 1-2 degrees off-quarter (as it tends to do), you lose your silking...

    Flattop guitars can have that wonderful silking all the way across the pattern...

  3. #3

    Default Re: Collings MT - Top wood grain feature looks like a smudge?

    I had an MT for a while and thought it looked kind of weird too. Seems to be pretty standard with those mandolins, though.

  4. #4
    wood butcher Spruce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Collings MT - Top wood grain feature looks like a smudge?

    Quote Originally Posted by JWalterWeatherman View Post
    I had an MT for a while and thought it looked kind of weird too. Seems to be pretty standard with those mandolins, though.
    Well, 99.9% of all archtop mandos have these flashing meds (spider-webbing, silking, or whatever you want to call it), but some maker's finishes tend to highlight them more, I guess...
    I guess we can put Collings in that camp...
    I just looked at all my instruments, and I'm seeing medullaries in every one of 'em...

    Ironically, a lot of Loars don't have this type of silking, and instead have a "muddy" look that results when you use severely off-quarter spruce...
    Lika so: ////////////////////////////// (or worse).

    Nobody would ever put a chisel to wood like that these days...

  5. #5
    Mandolin & Mandola maker
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    Default Re: Collings MT - Top wood grain feature looks like a smudge?

    I had an MT for a while and thought it looked kind of weird too. Seems to be pretty standard with those mandolins, though.
    Why weird? This is normal! As Bruce says, if you can see the medullary rays the wood is dead on quarter sawn. It is something you want to see because that is when the wood is at maximum stiffness. Some finishes will show it more than others. As Bruce says, rift sawn nowadays ends up on the firewood pile. If you buy wood from Bruce, you will see plenty of medullaries!
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  6. #6
    Wood and Wire Perry Babasin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Collings MT - Top wood grain feature looks like a smudge?

    Personally I love wood grain and natural wood character. When I refinished my mandolin these figures showed up, and I find them to be beautiful complex grain patterns, very cool!
    ===================================
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    MandolaViola bratsche's Avatar
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    Default Re: Collings MT - Top wood grain feature looks like a smudge?

    I think they're neat, too, Perry. My Mid Missouri M-16 and Sawchyn Beaver Tail mandolas' tops both have abundant medullary rays, and on the latter, you see motion and shimmer in certain light, with the high gloss finish. Lots of character in that wood!

    bratsche
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    Registered User Matt Livingston's Avatar
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    Default Re: Collings MT - Top wood grain feature looks like a smudge?

    Thanks, Everyone. Questions answered. Maybe the satin finish brings it out more. This is the first satin finish mandolin I've owned.

  9. #9
    wood butcher Spruce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Collings MT - Top wood grain feature looks like a smudge?

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Livingston View Post
    Thanks, Everyone. Questions answered. Maybe the satin finish brings it out more.
    Also, some spruce is "silkier" than others, but they all have that flash when on quarter...
    Same with maple...
    Violin bridge wood (European maple) is chosen for it's tight graining and strong medullaries, which are obvious on just about every violin bridge out there...

    For a great display of how meds flash, look at a rolling pin.
    Nothing, nothing, nothing, and then--on quarter--the medullaries flash...


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    mandolin slinger Steve Ostrander's Avatar
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    Default Re: Collings MT - Top wood grain feature looks like a smudge?

    I had an MT that had that on the top. I thought it looked great. Sounded good too.
    Living’ in the Mitten

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    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Collings MT - Top wood grain feature looks like a smudge?

    Excellent example Bruce!
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

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    man about town Markus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Collings MT - Top wood grain feature looks like a smudge?

    From my rolling pin it would appear you can see the birds eye maple patterning most at 90 degrees off where you see medullary rays?

    (My Mom left me the most beautiful old rolling pin ....)

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    wood butcher Spruce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Collings MT - Top wood grain feature looks like a smudge?

    Quote Originally Posted by Markus View Post
    From my rolling pin it would appear you can see the birds eye maple patterning most at 90 degrees off where you see medullary rays?
    Correct. Birdseye shows up on the slab...

    Quote Originally Posted by Markus View Post
    (My Mom left me the most beautiful old rolling pin ....)
    Pics!!

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    Middle-Aged Old-Timer Tobin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Collings MT - Top wood grain feature looks like a smudge?

    Well, 99.9% of all archtop mandos have these flashing meds (spider-webbing, silking, or whatever you want to call it), but some maker's finishes tend to highlight them more, I guess...
    Funny, I've always noticed them being there but never really paid much attention to them. I had to go back and look at the pattern on mine, and all of a sudden they seem really intricate and wild. I guess this is the instrument's fingerprint, as it were.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I can understand the presence of medullary rays being a function of being quarter-sawn, but what causes the squiggly patterns? Is it just a function of the natural tree growth, or does the arched carving of the top tend to accentuate it or make it appear more squiggly than it would on a flat surface? And as for finishes bringing them out, do the medullary rays tend to be highlighted better on sunburst finishes, especially in the fading areas? It seems that these rays don't accept the dye/stain as readily as wood surrounding them.

  16. #15
    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Collings MT - Top wood grain feature looks like a smudge?

    Isn't this also sometimes,referred to as "Bear Claw"?
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

  17. #16
    wood butcher Spruce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Collings MT - Top wood grain feature looks like a smudge?

    Quote Originally Posted by Timbofood View Post
    Isn't this also sometimes,referred to as "Bear Claw"?
    No, that's a whole 'nother deal...

  18. #17

    Default Re: Collings MT - Top wood grain feature looks like a smudge?

    Just missed out on getting this one, love that fingerboard, I'm gonna guess pretty flatsawn:
    Click image for larger version. 

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  19. #18
    Registered User David Houchens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Collings MT - Top wood grain feature looks like a smudge?

    Some maple binding on my next guitar.Click image for larger version. 

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