Mics for cbom family

[garryireland]

After trying a few pickups im wondering does anybody use just mics fir their live performances? Im talking bar gigs, small weddings etc. Id be mostly playing with guitar and whistles so no loud drums or bass etc. What mic would you guys recommend?

Ps its for my mando and zouk

[Colin Lindsay]

I found with mics that in the throes of performance-passion I had a tendency to hit the mic with the front of the instrument, causing little marks that depending on the instrument caused a reaction ranging from turning the air mildly blue to full flow of tears... so I’ve started using the Myers series of pickups particularly The Feather model; I needed something I could swap between instruments. I found the suction-cup model sticks quite well without marking, on a good well varnished surface anyway, and can be swapped around my instruments depending on what is required. The clip-on version is also very versatile especially for the Waldzither or the hurdy-gurdy where there’s no real alternative in pickups. I got my last one direct from the States with the price of around £80 GBP inclusive of carriage and import duties.
http://www.myerspickups.com/myerspickups.html

[scifi]

I am only playing on small stages with 25 - 150 people in the audience. A year ago I have started to put a simple Shure SM57 mic in front of me on stage. That sounds very good to my (much better than any pickups I have ever tried), is cheap and easy to handle. Of course I am bonded to the microphone and have to keep a pretty close and constant distance to it. That is why I am trying now to add a rather low signal from the pickups (Guitar & Cittern). That makes it more safe for me to keep an adequate sound level.
Years before I tried condenser mics too, but that usually ended in a feedback disaster.

[Gerry Cassidy]

Not sure how much $$$ you want to spend, but I came across a good deal on a matched pair of this model a few years back:

http://www.pelusomicrophonelab.com/m...nes/CEMC6.html

The pair are mostly for studio work, but I use just one of them when playing live and it has been fantastic.

It's a condenser and it is very sensitive, so you can place it 2-3 feet away from your instrument. I've never had an issue of running my mando into it.

[garryireland]

I have a microvox stick on and psu but doesn't seen to give much volume through a pa system i used a while back. So much so that i couldnt be heard over 2 guitars and a bass

[Ray(T)]

I've had the same experience with Microvox; not on mandolin - it's not something I'd ever consider - but they seem to be popular with accordion players. I've never found one you could get any volume out of.

Your first choice should be one of these http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/Mic...crophones.aspx although you can't back off from it to add dynamics to your playing. There's nothing wrong with the SM57 - they're cheaper today than when I bought mine over thirty years ago! Personally, I use one of these http://www.akg.com/pro/p/c1000s you can phantom power them but if phantom isn't available, you can use a battery.

[garryireland]

I found with mics that in the throes of performance-passion I had a tendency to hit the mic with the front of the instrument, causing little marks that depending on the instrument caused a reaction ranging from turning the air mildly blue to full flow of tears... so I’ve started using the Myers series of pickups particularly The Feather model; I needed something I could swap between instruments. I found the suction-cup model sticks quite well without marking, on a good well varnished surface anyway, and can be swapped around my instruments depending on what is required. The clip-on version is also very versatile especially for the Waldzither or the hurdy-gurdy where there’s no real alternative in pickups. I got my last one direct from the States with the price of around £80 GBP inclusive of carriage and import duties.
http://www.myerspickups.com/myerspickups.html

Is this not basically the same as my microvox? I was told it was great for bouzoukis and mandolins but it just doesn't seem to have any volume

J

[zoukboy]

I have used an Oktava MK012 small diaphragm condenser for several years. It's a Russian copy of a Neumann KM84 but at a fraction of the cost.

I recently got an Audio Technica AT831b miniature cardioid condenser (purchased here from the classifieds) for use as a clip-on for mandolin and am fairly happy with it. I have not tried it on bouzouki yet but based on the sound on mando I think it will work. I made a clip for it based on a set-up Dennis Cahill's guitar tech made for him, involving a hair tie and some 12ga solid core insulated wire. The wire is doubled over and made into a sort of hook that is placed over the edge of the instrument's soundhole. The hair tie is used for its elastic and that is hooked over the strap pin. The mic is mounted on that combination with velcro. I like it on the treble side near the fretboard extension pointing at the soundhole.

[Spruce]

I found with mics that in the throes of performance-passion I had a tendency to hit the mic with the front of the instrument, causing little marks that depending on the instrument caused a reaction ranging from turning the air mildly blue to full flow of tears...

Grab a mic windscreen...
End of problems...

[garryireland]

So would a mic alone work in bar settings? I switch between mando, zouk and banjo. One mic would save me alot ob pickups

[Gerry Cassidy]

So would a mic alone work in bar settings? I switch between mando, zouk and banjo. One mic would save me alot ob pickups

A good condenser mic would do it all, just fine.

One note about the Oktava; You are taking a chance with quality. Some work just fine for a good long time, but there are many that don't . A friend of mine who owns a store quit selling them because too many were returned defective. I believe a couple of the big box stores did the same.

[Hallmark498]

Sure KSM 27 or AT 4040 if you go the condenser way (can sometimes be tricky to mix feedback in some rooms) It what our 4 piece BG band uses.

Sure 58 for vocals and or 58/57 for instruments if solo. (you can get more volume and less feed back about 95% of the time over condenser)

Im starting to lean toward the individual mics if there is a good sound person to mix, again in a band setting 4 +. For setup ease condenser is good once you figure out the little tricks, (feed back, volume, and how to work the mic for vocals and singing)

[Hallmark498]

A good condenser mic would do it all, just fine.

One note about the Oktava; You are taking a chance with quality. Some work just fine for a good long time, but there are many that don't . A friend of mine who owns a store quit selling them because too many were returned defective. I believe a couple of the big box stores did the same.

Depending on the bar, if noisy I wouldnt got the condenser route

[garryireland]

Depending on the bar, if noisy I wouldnt got the condenser route

I what would work in the noisey bars? The music we play is mostly soft folk and traditional tunes so realistically its gona be hotel type settings etc

[foldedpath]

I what would work in the noisey bars? The music we play is mostly soft folk and traditional tunes so realistically its gona be hotel type settings etc

A hotel lounge is usually a quieter environment than what most of us think of as a bar gig, so you may be fine with an external mic on a stand. That would simplify the use of more than one instrument.

You could use an old standby like a Shure SM57, but a small diaphragm condenser mic like the Audio Technica Pro 37 is just $30 more. I always use condenser mics when going external like this, usually a spare Neumann KM184. The Pro 37 would be a decent entry-level mic for home recording if it doesn't work out for the live application.

What I use on my Weber OM is a clip-on DPA 4099, mounted like this:



Having the mic that close gets you a few more db headroom before feedback, and for most gigs I prefer it to using an external mic because I can EQ each instrument separately. But it means a separate mic for each instrument, since it's not very practical to swap mics in the middle of a gig.

For me, a pickup is a last resort for loud stages, and I'll always use a mic in preference to a pickup when I can. In fact I don't have any main instruments now with a pickup installed. It's mics or nuthin'. But you do need to learn best practices for feedback control, like controlling monitor volume and speaker placement.

[garryireland]

A hotel lounge is usually a quieter environment than what most of us think of as a bar gig, so you may be fine with an external mic on a stand. That would simplify the use of more than one instrument.

You could use an old standby like a Shure SM57, but a small diaphragm condenser mic like the Audio Technica Pro 37 is just $30 more. I always use condenser mics when going external like this, usually a spare Neumann KM184. The Pro 37 would be a decent entry-level mic for home recording if it doesn't work out for the live application.

What I use on my Weber OM is a clip-on DPA 4099, mounted like this:



Having the mic that close gets you a few more db headroom before feedback, and for most gigs I prefer it to using an external mic because I can EQ each instrument separately. But it means a separate mic for each instrument, since it's not very practical to swap mics in the middle of a gig.

For me, a pickup is a last resort for loud stages, and I'll always use a mic in preference to a pickup when I can. In fact I don't have any main instruments now with a pickup installed. It's mics or nuthin'. But you do need to learn best practices for feedback control, like controlling monitor volume and speaker placement.

We will be using a simple 500watt portable type pa. Mixer and 2 tops. Nothing major. Is there alot to learn in terms of controls?

[Gerry Cassidy]

Depending on the bar, if noisy I wouldnt got the condenser route

I've been doing it for a number of years now and any issues are worked out with proper placement. There are issues that we all deal with from time to time, but I've never had issues that would make me want to use anything else.

For my ears, pick ups degrade the acoustic properties/sound/tone of these instruments enough that you may as well get a solid body instrument. Clip on mics aren't much better. I have tried them on a few different instruments and the big-bodied stuff are the only ones they weren't targets for getting shot across the stage any time I really started playing. If you're doing a sit-down gig, or in the studio they are usually okay. I wouldn't make them my first choice for the live stage.

[foldedpath]

We will be using a simple 500watt portable type pa. Mixer and 2 tops. Nothing major. Is there alot to learn in terms of controls?

It's good that you don't have monitors, just the 2 mains while starting out. Keep the EQ controls flat unless you think something needs changing, especially if you're using an external microphone. Go easy on reverb, if that's in the portable PA mixer.

If you can't hear yourselves well enough through the PA, try rotating the two main speakers at the front and sides of the playing area slightly inwards towards the band, so you get a little more bleed off the mains. That can work well, if you want to avoid buying extra monitor speakers.

If the venue is small or the stage area is very cramped, you can try placing the main speakers behind the group. This allows good self-monitoring, but you really need modest stage levels to avoid feedback. If you do this, use speaker stands that can get the main speakers way up above you, so they're firing over your heads and not down into the mics. Good luck and have fun!

[zoukboy]

One note about the Oktava; You are taking a chance with quality. Some work just fine for a good long time, but there are many that don't . A friend of mine who owns a store quit selling them because too many were returned defective. I believe a couple of the big box stores did the same.

I have heard that story a couple of times now but not from anyone who as actually tried and returned one. Have you, Gerry? My understanding is if you buy from the importer he quality checks them before selling. And every one of these I have come across has sounded great. YMMV.

[Gerry Cassidy]

I have heard that story a couple of times now but not from anyone who as actually tried and returned one. Have you, Gerry? My understanding is if you buy from the importer he quality checks them before selling. And every one of these I have come across has sounded great. YMMV.

Hi Roger, yes, a friend of mine bought a couple of them for his home studio and neither of them worked out of the box. He had them replaced and 1 out of the 2 replacements didn't work. Again, the local store owner that gave up on them because of the amount of the ones he sold being returned.

I've actually worked with them once or twice and they perform okay...when they work.

[Colin Lindsay]

Not sure how much $$$ you want to spend, but I came across a good deal on a matched pair of this model a few years back:

http://www.pelusomicrophonelab.com/m...nes/CEMC6.html

The pair are mostly for studio work, but I use just one of them when playing live and it has been fantastic.

It's a condenser and it is very sensitive, so you can place it 2-3 feet away from your instrument. I've never had an issue of running my mando into it.

I used Behringer B5 mics a while back, so good I’d forgotten I had one until now and had to dig it out of a pile of other unused equipment… I may give it another chance…. but originally abandoned it in favour of a Pulse 1800T that was my mainstay for a while.

[Gerry Cassidy]

I used Behringer B5 mics a while back, so good I’d forgotten I had one until now and had to dig it out of a pile of other unused equipment… I may give it another chance…. but originally abandoned it in favour of a Pulse 1800T that was my mainstay for a while.

I know, again from experience, that Behringer stuff is prone to quality issues. Gotta be careful when buying it. I haven't heard of the Pulse mic. Sounds like it worked for you.

[garryireland]

I used Behringer B5 mics a while back, so good I’d forgotten I had one until now and had to dig it out of a pile of other unused equipment… I may give it another chance…. but originally abandoned it in favour of a Pulse 1800T that was my mainstay for a while.

The 1800 i found is 39£ for 3 mics. That couldnt be it surely?

[NotMelloCello]

Has anyone considered Ken Donnell's Mini-Flex systems?
They are very natural sounding internal microphones that sound great, and resist feedback.
Installed a ton of them in guitars back in the 80's and 90's.
Should be effective and pleasing in any CBOM...

[zoukboy]

I should have mentioned that my very favorite mic for mandolin and bouzouki is the Beyer M160 ribbon mic.