Quest for an oxymoronic plectrum

[eadg145]

I really like the lignum vitae picks offered from surfpick.com . I found them while reading one of the myriad pick threads here (why do I bother reading these?), and I like them a LOT! I've tried both the mandolin pick and the bass triangle, preferring the larger triangle as it turns out. Anyway, he makes a rubber-dipped (or "half dip") pick that you might want to try. I would think it's a no-lose situation. You can try using the rubber side to get that tone you're looking for, and if that doesn't work for you, you'll still have that real nice lignum vitae point. NFI here, but I highly recommend these!

[bratsche]

Some notes:

In my quest for variety, I have found many picks with tone I like (and that differs a fair amount from one instrument to the next, which kind of surprises me, since all are mandolas). Mostly, I like to favor the midrange and bass parts of the sound spectrum, the treble not so much. Bright-sounding picks are usually a "fail", or at best, reserved for odd occasions if I'm looking for that effect. But my ear generally likes a more "dark chocolatey" sound.

I really like the tone produced by the Pro-Plecs, btw. That's some nice material. I only wish the triangle shaped ones were larger, and pointier. They are so small that if I try to sharpen the points more, too much material has to be removed and I'm left with a small triangle. I like Large triangles. I have also made and used wooden picks (only ebony so far), and like them for certain things, but their use is limited. I've always wanted to try lignum vitae... well, just because... and I may get around to it one of these days, now that they've been mentioned and recommended again.

However, this thread is not about pick tone per se, but rather the lack thereof: that particular more pure and "round" sound that comes from using no pick, and which I'm trying to achieve with a pick, and so I look for materials or combination "hybrids" with attributes more like my fingers than an actual typical hard pick. It's the kind of sound with a minimal amount of "attack", and I wouldn't characterize it really as a "thud" either, but where the sound of each note just rings out smoothly and clearly.

And once again, this is with reference to mandolas. I don't even know if it applies to mandolins, with their higher tension and shorter scale. I've never tried to play a mandolin with my thumb or fingers, only a mandola. In the recording of this video, for example, I played the background piece using my thumb. It was quite by fortunate accident that I found the result more pleasing and appropriate to the music in this version, than how the same thing sounded to my ear when I first recorded it using a pick. I hadn't ever tried it before without one, but the pick-played version just wasn't quite how I wanted it to sound, so to me, it was one of those "Aha!" moments. (YMMV, of course.)

bratsche

[journeybear]

Allow me to offer a thumbnail sketch of a solution: Grow your thumbnail. The nail should work for fqaster picking and tremolo, the thumb for slower and softer notes, and chords. A little trial and error will help you find the optimal nail length and shape, and then you just have to keep it maintained. My results along these lines indicate a drop in volume and speed of tremolo, but if these aren't important factors to you this could work. And this pick comes with a lifetime guarantee against loss!

[bratsche]

Ahh, but even if I could grow my nails (I've cut them to the quick since childhood - and wouldn't they sound more pick-y, anyway?), you forget that I'm a violist. The right thumbnail would interfere greatly with the bow hold, I'm afraid. No cigar for you.

bratsche

[journeybear]

Hey - just offering advice about the mandola. You're on your own with the viola. And don't get me started on viola jokes ...

But perhaps the right kind or sculpting might produce a nail shape amenable to both instruments.

[Bertram Henze]

Grow your thumbnail....And this pick comes with a lifetime guarantee against loss!

Back when I started fingerpicking on my OM, I originally intended to play it all with my bare fingers and thumb to maintain the feeling. I cut and filed, and my nails were pieces of art, but as often as not they'd break just when I needed them the most. Not much of a guarantee. Finally I bit the bullet, took a lead from Hugh Jackman and started using fingerpicks and a thumbpick - never looked back.

[des]

Bratsche - I think that you may have three pickless / short nail options that are worth a look :

Wes style thumb - problem with upstrokes (particularly rest strokes) on double courses / eighth & sixteenth notes particularly. But hard enough to do even on the relatively widely spaced single courses on guitar

Classical guitar style use of two, three or even four fingers of the right hand - this would work even for tremolo - but there is not enough space on mandolin - maybe there is on mandola.

Use a variant of lute technique alternating thumb and one or more fingers for eighth note and faster runs. Maybe viable on mandola.

This all leads me to think that if you used single string courses on the instrument you might get the sound you are looking for. There are good hints that this may be feasible - I'm thinking of Aaron Weinstein and Johnny Gimble as well as the Arrow Jazzbo 5 strings - Jason Anick uses one I think. All admittedly with plectrums - but might be worth trying with thumb and fingers

[bratsche]

The reason I'm trying to achieve the sound with a pick, as opposed to with my fingers, is that it took me quite some time to be able to play halfway decently with a pick, and I don't want to spend the equivalent (if I even have that much time left) to learn an altogether new technique.

The homemade silicone pick is about finished; it has the sound, even more than the leather does. It's a little "grabby" on the strings, though, not a really smooth release, which slows it down some - the nature of rubbery things, I suppose. But it will certainly be useful as I persist in my quest.



bratsche

[crisscross]

Mostly, I like to favor the midrange and bass parts of the sound spectrum,

On my Lebeda F 5, wich has quite brillant highs, I alway come back using an 1,5 mm Dunlop Gator grip with the rounded side. Sounds kind of "natural" to my ears.

[Polecat]

Researching something else (I had actually googled "plectrum geometry"!) I ran across these: http://shop.corterleather.com/products/guitar-picks . I thought they might be of interest.

[bratsche]

Cool. I'm not going to pay 10 bucks for one though, when recyclable leather is so plentiful. I need to find some thicker stock. Too rounded for my taste, too. I wonder why all pick companies don't offer large triangles (like John Pearse, for example).

As promised, here is my review of the Clayton Phat-Tone picks, which arrived today.

They are not at all what I expected. 2.80mm seems downright slim, after what I've been working with in these experiments so far. It feels harder than I expected. It is actually a very plain 3-layer sandwich, which you can see in the cross-section, like one thin, stiff light-colored pick surrounded by two thin layers of darker rubber material. It has no bevel or taper whatsoever - the edges are just blunt and squared-off. I kind of expected the rubber to surround the pick edges and be somewhat tapered, like I am endeavoring to do (with minimal success on the tapering part) with the liquid silicone roofing stuff on my homemade pick. But it does not. It also emits a strong chemical odor, just to give a warning. I have no idea if that will dissipate over time, but it makes your fingers stink.

When I first played with it, it was a bit harsher than expected. Not as much as my felt pick, but enough surface scratchy noise to notice. I also noticed that the rubber surface was rather matte textured, so I rubbed it on a piece of denim for a while, paying most attention to the areas around the points, and it got more shiny. That alone improved the signal to noise ratio. But I'm not all that thrilled with it, to tell the truth. I wish there was some way to bevel it without exposing more of the hard pick in the middle. Between that and the strong smell, I prefer my silicone homemade pick, even if it is more grippy and fatter. When you drop the Phat-Tone on a hard surface, it makes a clicking sound, as most picks do. When you drop the silicone pick, it's very quiet, and when you drop it in just the right way, it can actually bounce.

Surprisingly, I think the material I see the most promise in is leather thus far, but I haven't had time for further leather experiments this week. But it has been interesting fooling around with all these ideas.

bratsche

[Pribar]

A friend of mine plays with a metal thumbpick that he glued a wrap of calfskin around, it gives a interesting sound.

[journeybear]

The reason I'm trying to achieve the sound with a pick, as opposed to with my fingers, is that it took me quite some time to be able to play halfway decently with a pick, and I don't want to spend the equivalent (if I even have that much time left) to learn an altogether new technique.

That's perfectly understandable. My previous posts suggesting something along those lines were the result of a little out-of-the-box thinking seasoned with a modicum of facetious. My experience using this approach has been rather underwhelming, the sound produced never getting anywhere near as bold as with a pick. But I can't help feeling that someone who really applied oneself to this could make it work. At least theoretically. Besides, just because *I* can't make something I've imagined into a reality doesn't mean someone else can't.