idiots guide to zouk pickup

[garryireland]

Ok so iv pretty much decided to get k and k pickups on my zouk andmandolin. However i know nothing about matching these with pre amps etc. I want to have the zouk and mandolin through my powered mixer to the speakers. what set up do i need? I will be using both for gigs and switching if that helps. Also a banjo

[Denman John]

Check out this Active Headway pickup made for OM/Bouzoukis. I plug my Nyberg OM straight to our PA mixer (through a couple of effects pedals) Great representation of the natural acoustic instrument ... throw in a couple of pedals and it gets fun

I use the pickup weekly and I don't even think about it once it's plugged in. Very reliable. I imagine that since they are made in the UK, it might be easier to track down than over here in Canada. I had a K&K pick up on a previous instrument, and I didn't care for it. The Headway in my opinion is in a different realm. Worthy of your consideration

[garryireland]

Check out this Active Headway pickup made for OM/Bouzoukis. I plug my Nyberg OM straight to our PA mixer (through a couple of effects pedals) Great representation of the natural acoustic instrument ... throw in a couple of pedals and it gets fun

I use the pickup weekly and I don't even think about it once it's plugged in. Very reliable. I imagine that since they are made in the UK, it might be easier to track down than over here in Canada. I had a K&K pick up on a previous instrument, and I didn't care for it. The Headway in my opinion is in a different realm. Worthy of your consideration

Would i be able to plug straight into a powered mixer then?

[Eddie Sheehy]

That Active looks cool. I have to use preamps with my passive pickups and they forever need adjusting. I have one instrument with an active fishman pickup and it sounds great - plugs directly into my Heath & Allen Zed 10.

[Denman John]

Would i be able to plug straight into a powered mixer then?

Yep, no pre amp or D.I. Box needed. Plug it straight into the mixer and you're good to go.

John

[garryireland]

Yep, no pre amp or D.I. Box needed. Plug it straight into the mixer and you're good to go.

John

Very expensive though. Hmmmm

[garryireland]

Yep, no pre amp or D.I. Box needed. Plug it straight into the mixer and you're good to go.

John

How does it fit to the bridge? Looking at the snake 3 too

[Eddie Sheehy]

That straight wire fits under the saddle - the bridge has to be drilled for the wire, then you can either drill the top under the bridge for the wire or run the wire through the soundhole. The jack replaces the endpin - but needs to be drilled wider... I'd get a professional to fit it...

[Tim Griffin]

Red Eye preamp/ DI sounds really good w K& K.

[Mandobart]

Do a little searching on the equipment forum, you'll find this question has been asked and answered about a dozen different ways..

Here is the most recent thread on it. Here is an older one. Older one. They just keep coming...

Though I first tried using three other preamps, I also recoomend the RedEye after getting one last fall. A preamp is more for tone than volume, sure you don't need a preamp in every live sound situation, but when you do, it's to kill the tinny quack and not to boost the signal.

[Lord of the Badgers]

+1 for the Headway. I plugged the buchanan into our new PA this year and the sound was epic.
I couldn't consider much else to be honest. I've played with a mic on my mandolin, and it would not suit my live playing one bit, we're just too loud & I'm too clumsy, and though it was a lovely one, it fed back easily.

but K&K (I use mine with a headway preamp which is fine or my AER amp) is a close second as that's what's in my f-hole mando

[Lord of the Badgers]

ps with the headway, it just doesn't sound like the typical artificial piezo sound to my ears. Our guitarist has typical run of the mill undersaddle pickups in his instruments and it just sounds so obviously piezo.
Even my tenor guitar sounds great with the headway (and moreso thru my AER amp )... worth the investment for ease of use.

[garryireland]

I already have a microvox stick on mic which is actually working pretty good but it would be nice to have an internal one, hence the questions about k and k.

[Lord of the Badgers]

as you can see, I have both... I have found that the K&K is prone to feedback when monitors are pointing at you if you're not careful - I could feel it resonating last night before feedback occurred, but it could be worse. you do need a preamp or an amp.


It's precisely why I prefer headway, but it all depends on what type of gig you're playing. Largely for me it's not a big issue with the K&K it just depends on where the PA mains are in relation to me!

Microvox's even moreso with feedback - I had the accordion variant briefly on my harmonium. It didn't take much to feedback at all.
Thought it nasty and cheap, though looked neat. The harmonium ended up getting an AKG mini condenser and battery pack which has served us well.

[Rvl]

I have 2 with Headway and 3 with K&K , I prefer the Headway into a AER amp or into the board
Dtar are also a good piezo
I have heard about the RedEye di but havent tried it , yet
I sometimes use an Orchid di and a Fdeck hpf filter if the soundguy is not experienced with acoustic instruments

[garryireland]

Im showing my ignorance here but how does that Headway fit on the zouk if theres no bridge plate?

[garryireland]

My zouk has no bone saddle, the bridge is all timber. And has 2feet so obviously this wouldn't fit. I have got myselfan sm 57 which im loving though..

[Lord of the Badgers]

Garry, a replacement bridge is easy enough to come by. A luthier should fit any piezo system for you (unless you are a great woodworker!) -

Previous thread from MC
http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...y-new-Bouzouki

Adjustable bridges rule out undersaddle pickups being retrofitted as far as I know. Fishman make an adjustable bridge with a built in piezo, which I have in my oldest mandolin, but it needs a good preamp to make it sound nice ( )

Hobgoblin sell this but I don't know if it's compensated (hence my showing the post above as there's a good pic to show it...)

[zoukboy]

I think the Headway is a variation on the old Highlander piezo cable pickup developed by Rick Turner. I had one of those in a Collings OM back in the mid 90s.

It was an awkward install because the bottom of the saddle slot and the bottom of the saddle itself had to be radiused with a special router bit to fit the cable. And it only sounded OK, IMHO. I was much more pleased with the B-Band electret condenser film transducers when they came out, especially the AST 1470:
http://www.b-band.com/index.php?mact...01returnid=151

and the A1.2 onboard preamp:

http://www.b-band.com/index.php?mact...01returnid=151

I have used these in a variety of string instruments, bouzouki, oud, lavta, laouto, guitar, with great results.

For bouzouki I would avoid the A1.2N-1470 onboard preamp because it has a built in notch filter meant to reduce feedback-prone frequencies on a flattop guitar and it does not sound pretty on a bouzouki.

Another alternative is to get the A2.2 preamp http://www.b-band.com/index.php?mact...01returnid=151

and mix the AST signal with their miniature condenser mic: http://www.b-band.com/index.php?mact...01returnid=151

The A2.2 comes with a volume control and blend knob that allows complete control of the two signals.

[garryireland]

I think the Headway is a variation on the old Highlander piezo cable pickup developed by Rick Turner. I had one of those in a Collings OM back in the mid 90s.

It was an awkward install because the bottom of the saddle slot and the bottom of the saddle itself had to be radiused with a special router bit to fit the cable. And it only sounded OK, IMHO. I was much more pleased with the B-Band electret condenser film transducers when they came out, especially the AST 1470:
http://www.b-band.com/index.php?mact...01returnid=151

and the A1.2 onboard preamp:

http://www.b-band.com/index.php?mact...01returnid=151

I have used these in a variety of string instruments, bouzouki, oud, lavta, laouto, guitar, with great results.

For bouzouki I would avoid the A1.2N-1470 onboard preamp because it has a built in notch filter meant to reduce feedback-prone frequencies on a flattop guitar and it does not sound pretty on a bouzouki.

Another alternative is to get the A2.2 preamp http://www.b-band.com/index.php?mact...01returnid=151

and mix the AST signal with their miniature condenser mic: http://www.b-band.com/index.php?mact...01returnid=151

The A2.2 comes with a volume control and blend knob that allows complete control of the two signals.

The mic looks interesting. Can get the pre amp and mic here for around 150euro. Do i just plug into the mixer then?

[Rvl]

The mic looks interesting. Can get the pre amp and mic here for around 150euro. Do i just plug into the mixer then?

There are so many variables when amplifying acoustic instruments
It will work but feedback , phasing , brightness , hollow sounding or other problems can be reduced with the use of a good external acoustic preamp
I think all the members here have battled to find great sounding live amped sound , but in my experience I have yet to find a truly great and settle for good

[Rvl]

I think the Headway is a variation on the old Highlander piezo cable pickup developed by Rick Turner. I had one of those in a Collings OM back in the mid 90s.

I find the Dtar better than the Highlander , the Dtar is a Rick Turner design also

[Rvl]

http://www.b-band.com/index.php?mact...01returnid=151
It looks as if the the mic can be only used with A2 preamp only as a 2nd channel
Does that mean they only recommend using it with the piezo?
100hz-10k
S/N ratio: > 58 dB

[Lord of the Badgers]

I think the Headway is a variation on the old Highlander piezo cable pickup developed by Rick Turner. I had one of those in a Collings OM back in the mid 90s.

OK, but that was then. We've all heard crappy piezos, but as I said, it's in my tenor guitar and sounds as natural as I need it for 9/10 situations. I had an old Ashbory from that time (which was considered revolutionary and weirdly I got talking to his daughter on facebook once!) in my oldest mando til I put a headway in it. Night. Day. Sentence arrangement required.

If I was wanting the the ultimate acoustic sound, I'd be pointing some big condensers in the studio at it... but for live, with a good amp and a touch of reverb, the sound floored me with my zouk. It's easy to tar all modern piezo systems with the same brush. Make up your own minds by looking at their site I guess, but the preamp is specifically geared to the signature sound of the instrument its intended for.

In my experience, of trying mics, the variables of using mics (placement, knocking it, and feedback) just don't work for me, but may work for Garry. I recently tried a good mic (sorry name escapes morning brain, but my mate never buys cheap) thru a very very good amp, with my K&K in the mix going via headway's own preamp. The mic was in close proximity so would naturally feedback, but the combination of K&K plus mic worked. On its own, I didn't like the mic, and I could see me knocking the damn thing, maybe even breaking it!!

On the downside, the K&K (it's in my f hole mando) picks up my rumbling tummy... and everything else! Whereas the undersaddle picks up the more full on noises only.
What is perfectly clear is that there's no one solution.

Garry, you should tell us under what circumstances you're using it - what sort of gig is it mate?

[zoukboy]

The mic looks interesting. Can get the pre amp and mic here for around 150euro. Do i just plug into the mixer then?

Yes, the signals are blended into a buffered signal that can go to a direct box or mixer or amp.