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Thread: Ebay: Copy of a Lloyd Lane!

  1. #1
    Registered User jim simpson's Avatar
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    Default Ebay: Copy of a Lloyd Lane!

    "This is a copy of a Lloyd Lane 5 point Gibson":

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mandolin-Mad...item3cef4c488a
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    Registered User Londy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ebay: Copy of a Lloyd Lane!

    Ooooh.... but its made from a guy in Ohio and there is a mandolin in a random museum. Starting bid at $1500 what a deal, better get bidding.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Ebay: Copy of a Lloyd Lane!

    Yeah, well, it's getting hard to find a good five-point these days.

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    Default Re: Ebay: Copy of a Lloyd Lane!

    My uncle Llloyd was well ahead of his time.

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  6. #5
    Registered User Londy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ebay: Copy of a Lloyd Lane!

    la la la la Lloyd
    Amateurs practice until they can play it right.
    Professionals practice until they can't play it wrong.

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    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ebay: Copy of a Lloyd Lane!

    I sort of like the look of this thing, and the workmanship looks all right as far as I can tell from the not-so-great photos. But there's gotta be a reason that (a) I've never heard of this guy; and (b) four of his other mandolins are stuck in a museum somewhere. (Why would the museum need more than one, unless no one else wants them?)

    Here's a blog by an Ohio mandolinist named John Whitacre. No idea if it's the same dude; I didn't find any mention of luthiery.
    http://rampantmandolin.blogspot.com/
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    Registered User Londy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ebay: Copy of a Lloyd Lane!

    exactly...
    Amateurs practice until they can play it right.
    Professionals practice until they can't play it wrong.

    Collings MTO
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  9. #8

    Default Re: Ebay: Copy of a Lloyd Lane!

    Not sure what I'm missing here? Looks like a well-made instrument by somebody with enough talent and skill to try something different from your "normal" F-5 copy....

    What's it sound like? Don't know.

    What's it worth? Don't know.

  10. #9
    Registered User Petrus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ebay: Copy of a Lloyd Lane!

    Ditto that that looks like a fairly decent luthier made instrument. I like the giant squid inlay in the headstock and the vertical oval sound hole. Seems journeymanlike at least.

  11. #10
    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ebay: Copy of a Lloyd Lane!

    Where are the other 2 points?
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    Default Re: Ebay: Copy of a Lloyd Lane!

    I really like the look of a 3 point just can't afford one
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  13. #12

    Default Re: Ebay: Copy of a Lloyd Lane!

    First of all this is an ebay seller who's information is likely to be incorrect. I find that to be pretty normal. The museum story may be just as correct as this is a Loar copy! The builder knows it's not! Second this mandolin does not appear to be too bad and actually it's pretty nice and if there is no reserve at $1500 it could be a good purchase. The builder has some skills and I don't think it means anything that maybe he's unheard of. It's a tough business to crack and if you don't make the NBA cut you will probably starve. I think the odds for someone to make it into the NBA is probably a little higher than making it(as in making a living) as a luthier. I personally don't see how someone building by hand a mandolin(F) and doesn't get $5,000 is making a living...and it's hard to get that much if you haven't established a name! Besides this guy is already a musician --how many professions can you have that you don't get paid?

  14. #13
    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ebay: Copy of a Lloyd Lane!

    I might take a chance at about half the listed price.
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    Default Re: Ebay: Copy of a Lloyd Lane!

    Quote Originally Posted by barney 59 View Post
    First of all this is an ebay seller who's information is likely to be incorrect. I find that to be pretty normal. The museum story may be just as correct as this is a Loar copy! The builder knows it's not! Second this mandolin does not appear to be too bad and actually it's pretty nice and if there is no reserve at $1500 it could be a good purchase. The builder has some skills and I don't think it means anything that maybe he's unheard of. It's a tough business to crack and if you don't make the NBA cut you will probably starve. I think the odds for someone to make it into the NBA is probably a little higher than making it(as in making a living) as a luthier. I personally don't see how someone building by hand a mandolin(F) and doesn't get $5,000 is making a living...and it's hard to get that much if you haven't established a name! Besides this guy is already a musician --how many professions can you have that you don't get paid?
    Good points, Barney 59! I think it is hard to make a living being self-employed--AT ANYTHING! We all have different requirements for income. You would think it impossible, but it appears there are luthiers building mandolins and doing their thing, who have never heard of Mandolin Cafe, and we have never heard of them. And some, like this guy, seem to know what they are doing. If you would add up the hours required to make an F-style, at $1500, he would probably be making about $3 an hour. If that. I would guess local cabinetmakers probably make 5 times that. I know when Gibson opened in Memphis about 15 years ago, a lot of guys who refinish furniture applied, but passed on the job because the top painters at Gibson were making $15 an hour and guys could make more doing furniture. I think there are a lot more builders we have never heard of out there. They keep popping up on eBay! Thank goodness. Where they fit into the "marketplace" is anyone's guess.

    As far as making a living playing music......don't get me started. I tried for the last 40 years, I say I probably made a living as a musician three of those years. And that was only because my standards were so low! I would say, if you're young, have a cheap apartment, a cheap car, and your wife has a good job--you might be able to be a professional musician, but just barely! My observation is that there is no middle class in being a professional musician. There are plenty of starving artists and we see some superstars on TV, but where are the guys (and gals) making $62,000 a year and raising a family and paying a mortgage? I haven't seen any in my neighborhood. Usually you have to work several other jobs to supplement your music income.

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    Default Re: Ebay: Copy of a Lloyd Lane!

    Huh? Looks like he corrected the copy to say "Lloyd Loar." Too bad; I was interested until then, as I used to live on Lloyd Lane. Or was it Love Lane? I'm so confused. What was in that rum punch? Oh, yeah - rum, and lots of it. Anyway, the seller seems to have problems with spelling, giving the maker as both "Witacer" and "Wittaker," neither of which fit the "Whitacre" mrmando found. That squid gives me the willies, though. And this is the first I've seen of a Loar copy with that sort of headstock inlay. And I, too, wonder where are the other two points. And also wonder, pretty much, what is the point?
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    Certified! Bernie Daniel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ebay: Copy of a Lloyd Lane!

    Quote Originally Posted by mrmando View Post
    I sort of like the look of this thing, and the workmanship looks all right as far as I can tell from the not-so-great photos. But there's gotta be a reason that (a) I've never heard of this guy; and (b) four of his other mandolins are stuck in a museum somewhere. (Why would the museum need more than one, unless no one else wants them?)

    Here's a blog by an Ohio mandolinist named John Whitacre. No idea if it's the same dude; I didn't find any mention of luthiery.
    http://rampantmandolin.blogspot.com/
    I agree probably not the same guy? That John G. Whitacre lives in Winona, Ohio which is in the NE part of the state -- nice country. The rare 5-point mandolin is in Florida. Gee, I wonder if there is a mandolin museum in Ohio?

    The carving, finish and the detail work seem very good on the mandolin -- is the scroll intended to be a nod toward the Monteleone GA? However, the squid on the headstock leaves me cold and clammy -- so to speak. Nothing else on the mandolin speaks to a sea invertebrate theme -- just noting that.
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    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ebay: Copy of a Lloyd Lane!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernie Daniel View Post
    Nothing else on the mandolin speaks to a sea invertebrate theme -- just noting that.
    Well, parts of the squid are made from some kind of bivalve. I don't know green abalone from white abalone from MOP, but somehow I have a craving for calamari.
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    Registered User jim simpson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ebay: Copy of a Lloyd Lane!

    The sound-hole looks a bit like the Paris Swing Nuages mandolin just a bit smaller. There was a cool mandolin that I was lusting after a while back that had a sound hole orientation like this. One of those times where visuals alone almost had me. The squid could be de-squidded with an overlay of some sort. The looks of this one is kinda growing on me but mando fund is deflated.
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    Professional Dreamer journeybear's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ebay: Copy of a Lloyd Lane!

    What the -? First the description was gone ... now it's back, with some amplification. Maybe the seller has been paying attention to our palaver. Anyway, he says he's selling it for a friend, the widow of the owner, and neither of them knows a whole lot about these things.
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

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  21. #20
    Registered User rubydubyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ebay: Copy of a Lloyd Lane!

    Quote Originally Posted by mrmando View Post
    Well, parts of the squid are made from some kind of bivalve. I don't know green abalone from white abalone from MOP, but somehow I have a craving for calamari.

  22. #21
    Certified! Bernie Daniel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ebay: Copy of a Lloyd Lane!

    Quote Originally Posted by journeybear View Post
    What the -? First the description was gone ... now it's back, with some amplification. Maybe the seller has been paying attention to our palaver. Anyway, he says he's selling it for a friend, the widow of the owner, and neither of them knows a whole lot about these things.
    It DOES look like the seller is reading this string and addressing the questions -- which is good. I do see however that after expanding the description the 5-point mandolin (3 point for all the rest of us) that it is now called an Andolin. Maybe that will be corrected in the next round of edits?

    If I were to offer any advice to this seller I would suggest some additional better quality pictures. I would include pictures of the entire front and back, and close ups of the bridge, tail piece, fret board, sound hole, and other features.

    The standard allotment of pics allowed on eBay is at least 12 now isn't it? More pictures help a buyer decide whether a bid is in order. A picture of the case would be good too.

    I assume the fret board is ebony but the add does not say.

    If it does not sell on eBay I would offer it for sale on the Mandolin Cafe classifieds. The add does have a best offer feature also.
    Last edited by Bernie Daniel; Dec-29-2014 at 11:50pm.
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    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ebay: Copy of a Lloyd Lane!

    Quote Originally Posted by Londy View Post
    Ooooh.... but its made from a guy in Ohio
    That would be intriguing ... but I hope not. I don't think it would be legal to sell on eBay if that were the case.
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    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ebay: Copy of a Lloyd Lane!

    I don't know if he's reading the thread but I sent him some questions.

    If he IS reading the thread ... it's NOT a copy of a Lloyd Loar design. Loar never built anything like this. It is a copy of an Orville Gibson design with an altered soundhole.
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    Default Re: Ebay: Copy of a Lloyd Lane!

    Quote Originally Posted by mrmando View Post
    That would be intriguing ... but I hope not. I don't think it would be legal to sell on eBay if that were the case.
    Hmmm .. Missed that. Thanks, Mr. Eagle Eye. Yep, gotta watch those prepositions.

    And it's a 3-point design.
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

    Furthering Mandolin Consciousness

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  26. #25
    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ebay: Copy of a Lloyd Lane!

    Well, reportedly the luthier was from Bowling Green, Ohio, and the other four mandolins are in the Black Swamp Museum.

    But there is no Black Swamp Museum in Ohio.
    Emando.com: More than you wanted to know about electric mandolins.

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