Adjusting Saddle with Leverage?

[FLATROCK HILL]

I was just reading a current thread (Stiver thread in Gen Mandolin Discussions) which mentions the time consuming process of loosening all the strings to raise the action.

I am (almost) sure I read an old post somewhere in these pages where Big Joe describes an easier, quicker method for small adjustments. If I remember correctly, he would carefully place a large, flat-bladed screwdriver between the top of the bridge and the bottom of the saddle. By gently twisting the screwdriver, he would relieve just enough pressure to enable easy turning of the thumbwheels. Does anyone else use this proceedure? Are there any reasons not to do it that way?

I don't mean to attibute this method to Big Joe without confirming it first. I tried to find the thread, but was unable. Any advice on this subject from the experienced folks on this forum would be appreciated.

[Timbofood]

I don't know if Big Joe wrote about it but, I had shared that idea which I got from Bill Halsey. I just posted the technique again on the new Stiver thread. If Big Joe posted that too, I think I am in good company!

[fscotte]

Just use small pliers.

[multidon]

Or you could update to a bridge that is designed to be raised under tension. My Weber (Brekke bridge) and my Breedlove both have bridges that can be adjusted under tension with a special tool. If you like your traditional look there is a "traditional" Brekke bridge that looks more orthodox but can be adjusted the same way, only with a different sort of tool.

Using a screwdriver or pliers would make me too nervous. One slip and you have a gouged top.

[sunburst]

I do the screw driver thing sometimes. It depends on the mandolin and the bridge and the situation, but it needs to be done carefully and judiciously if it is done, because otherwise damage to the bridge or the mandolin can result. The shaft of the screw driver should be long enough that only the shaft is over the top of the mandolin and the handle is clear of the body of the mandolin. That avoids the danger of dinging the top with the handle of the screw driver. The blade of the screw driver should be wide enough that it doesn't have to rotate far to do the job, and the blade really should be worn enough on the corners that sharp edges don't dent and damage the wood of the bridge. Lastly, the bridge should be of average quality and importance. If I was working on a Loar with an original bridge in excellent condition, I wouldn't even hold a screw driver over the top of the mandolin (just on the off chance of dropping the tool), let alone twist it in the bridge. If, on the other hand, someone had a typically worn Kentucky (or insert moderately priced manufactured mandolin of your choice here) with a typically worn bridge at a festival in need of a bridge adjustment, why not?

BTW, besides the obvious dangers of dinging the mandolin manipulating a tool near it's top, and the danger of damaging the edges of the adjuster wheels with a pair of pliers, there is also the danger of premature wear to the threads of the brass adjuster wheels from adjusting the bridge under full string pressure using pliers on the wheels. I know people who do use pliers (including one Loar owner!), but I don't turn the wheels if I can't do it with my fingers alone.

[biologyprof]

I don't know if Big Joe wrote about it but, I had shared that idea which I got from Bill Halsey. I just posted the technique again on the new Stiver thread. If Big Joe posted that too, I think I am in good company!

The last time I had Lou Stiver look at my A5G he used the same technique to eliminate a little buzz. Since then I've successfully been able to do this on another mandolin. Timothy, your list of good company is increasing. Of course, I'm referring to Lou Stiver and not me.
Greg

[Folkmusician.com]

For me, it is not realistic to detune to adjust the bridge. I setup several mandolins per day and anything that saves time, allows me to concentrate on more important things. I have nearly the same thoughts as John. On most mandolins, I will use a big screwdriver that I keep specifically for this. I do not use it on high dollar instruments or when I am installing a new CA bridge, but most of the time it is the appropriate method. I will occasionally use pliers, but this is very rare. I have a couple of sets where the teeth match the knurles well and I can do it without damaging the thumbwheels. When needed, I do detune the mandolin. Let me add that I will slightly detune the mandolin if I am raising the bridge a significant amount, regardless of the method.

The big question, have I damaged an instrument doing this? Out of tens of thousands of mandolins, I have never damaged a mandolin top with a tool while adjusting the bridge. I have broken bridge saddles on new mandolins. In every case, the bridge would have likely broken anyway. In fact, I have broken a lot more bridge saddles simply tuning the mandolin up (or they pop just sitting under tension), than while adjusting the bridge.

[Steevarino]

I use the flat screwdriver method all the time. I think it was Charlie Derrington that showed me this "technique" originally. Like Robert, I haven't had a problem yet. Unlike Robert, I do it with CA bridges all the time! You just put enough twist on the screwdriver handle so that you are able to turn the thumb wheels by hand, no more. Personally, I would never put pliers on the thumb wheels. Too big of a chance to scar them.

[Folkmusician.com]

Unlike Robert, I do it with CA bridges all the time!

My thoughts here are that I am charging a pretty good amount of money to install the bridges and I don't want any marks on it.

[Austin Clark]

No marks, better leverage, and way safer than a screwdriver or pliers. Just a long gentle wedge. No twisting required.

[FLATROCK HILL]

Thanks for all the thoughts on this matter.

Just for the record, I've been using the screwdriver technique myself since I first heard of it. I have been laying a thick towel over the area of the mandolin, below where the screwdriver handle will be (just in case). As an extra measure of protection for both the bridge and saddle, I slide a couple of guitar picks on either side of the screwdriver blade before applying any pressure. No marks that way.

I did not think there was anything wrong with this method, but...after reading (Stiver thread) how the workers/pros at the shop were loosening the strings over and over, I had second thoughts.

I do not and would not use pliers on the thumbwheels. Even if I somehow avoided scratching the top or gooching up the wheels, I wouldn't want to chance stripping the bridge threads. That's just me though.

Thanks again.

[fscotte]

You won't strip the threads, there's hardly any torque turning the wheels. You may scuff up the outside of the wheels though, so use nylon pliers instead, the kind they use in jewelry.

[HoGo]

I've been using this for almost 20 years now, though most of the time I was able to turn the wheels under pressure with bare fingers. Never damaged the bridge or top with the screwdriver. My main player has very high bridge and high pressure of strings coupled with small wheels, this is one of the few where I couldn't turn it by fingers alone and used the screwdriver to help. I see no signs of damage on ebony after 18 years.

[Nevin]

Stewart McDonald has a tool they call the Bridge Jack that is intended for Gibson Tune-O-Matic type guitar bridges that could work as well. It is padded to minimize the possibility of damage.

[Steve Ostrander]

No marks, better leverage, and way safer than a screwdriver or pliers. Just a long gentle wedge. No twisting required.

This is similar to what I use. I cut a long shallow wedge out of hardwood. About 10 degrees I'm guessing. It's the same principle, but probably less likely to leave a mark due to the width of the wedge.

[Folkmusician.com]

so use nylon pliers instead, the kind they use in jewelry.

I have a set I glued heavy leather to. It grips real well and no damage. I only use them in certain situations.

[pops1]

I use whatever fits between the bridge, i don't twist but instead lever. Wood plastic or metal, it doesn't take much leverage to turn the thumb wheels. It is not necessary to lift the bridge, but only take enough tension off to turn the wheel. Since i am not using that much leverage it does not seem to mar the bridge.

[Marty Jacobson]

You can also replace the thumbwheels with hex nuts and use a small wrench. I ship all my instruments this way. The wedge trick is useful, though.

[HogTime]

No marks, better leverage, and way safer than a screwdriver or pliers. Just a long gentle wedge. No twisting required.

Watched someone use one of these on my F5 and it worked like a charm!