Sam Bush Master Model vs Sam Bush F5

[Tony Pearce]

I've been looking at these for long enough now I should really be able to answer this myself.

I read the blurb for the SB 1934 inspired F5 (with the Fern inlay) and it quotes a nut of 1 3/16" I've also read ads by dealers which state the Gibson Sam Bush (flower pot inlay) and I find some that quote the nut width as 1 1/16".

Now, I'm quite capable of miss-reading or miss-hearing specs. I naively thought the flower pot SB would be much the same as the Fern but without SB's signature, woods and accompanying documents.

Have I got this wrong somewhere?

[outsidenote]

Good Question. I had always thought that the Gibson Sam bush had a 1 3/16 nut but the Gibson website lists 1 1/16in its specs.

[DataNick]

Probably a website glitch: I just played my buddy's Gibson Sam Bush last night and it's noticeably wider than my 1 1/16 F5L.

[jochemgr]

I thought the Bush fern has a pointed bottom on the fretboard and the regular flowerpot Bush has the truncated Florida, but then I saw this one in the classifieds:
Do they make the Bush flowerpot model with a pointed fingerboard end now as well or is this an oddball?
I wish they would make them with the complete Florida on them!

[outsidenote]

I kind of thought that the whole point of the Sam Bush model was not to have one.

[DataNick]

I kind of thought that the whole point of the Sam Bush model was not to have one.

That was one of the design features that Sam Bush requested...

[mandroid]

I'm thinking .. Genus: F5, Species: made to reflect Sam Bush's set up preferences.. so named after the Player .

I wish they would make them with the complete Florida on them!

Then within the Genus 'F5' , you want a different Gibson Species.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Here's a pic. of Sam's mandolin & it shows the 'sawn off' fingerboard extension. The pic. posted by jochemgr shows a fingerboard termination similar to the Gibson Doyle Lawson model.
Regarding widths at the nut - it's amazing how a tiny fraction of an inch can be deceptive. When i received my recently purchased 'used' Ellis "A" style,i was convinced just by it's appearance,that it was even narrower at the nut than my Weber 'Fern'. On measuring it,it turned out to be fractionally wider !. My larger than standard Lebeda also seems to be much wider than either of the other 2,but it's less than a 1/16" difference. It's the string spacing within the nut width that's important,not the nut width
itself - but we all know that don't we ?,
Ivan

[jochemgr]

Good points all, what I was really thinking was I wish Gibson made a proper 30's reissue. That was based on looks mainly as I love the way the Bush model looks with it's block inlays and Gibson script, but I love the look of a full FLA (genus?) I don't particularly care for the Sam Bush signature on it as I'm not too familiar with his music.
I've never played a Bush. I know the top is thinner around the F-holes and from what I read here they're more hit and miss than the average F5G, but I don't really get to try out too many Mando's in Aus, so I'm stuck with the Cafe as to judge what they really sound like!

[Ivan Kelsall]

Jesse Brock's 'Sam Bush' model sound pretty awesome to my ears & i'd love the chance to get my hands on it - not likely from this side of the pond. I've always wondered if his is an 'off the peg'' mandolin or whether it's been tailored to his tastes in any way,
Ivan

[DataNick]

Jesse Brock's Sam Bush F5 does sound fabulous, but so did his Hester F5. Cafe member Jordan Ramsey plays a Bush that is supposed to be great as well. My experience with the few Sam Bush models that I have run across is that like most mandolins, they need to be played "like you whip a mule" to open them up, but once opened they're nice flavors of the Gibby F5 sound.

[Tony Pearce]

Thanks to everybody for their tuppence worth (2 cents). The Jesse Brock clip has just whetted my appetite further!

[lenf12]

For the sake of clarity I'll mention that these are different mandolins that have Sam's name associated with them. The Sam Bush Signature Model F-5 is an emulation of Sam's famous 1937 Gibson F-5 with the Florida sawn off (minus the "hippy sanding" and "distressing" of nearly 80 years of playing). The Sam Bush "Master Model" (is that the real name?) is a recreation of 1933 (or 34) Gibson F-5 that was illustrated on the Gibson brochure but that never went into production (until recently). Apparently Sam has a copy of the brochure and persuaded Gibson to make a limited production run that Sam would personally play/approve and autograph a document to that effect. This model is not currently displayed on the Gibson website so I assume it's a special/custom order. These are also considerably more expensive than the more common Sam Bush Signature Model F-5.

A friend of mine has one of the latter Master Models signed by Dave Harvey and it is a gorgeous mandolin with the fern and block inlays and all that. It's funny though that this friend's "go to" mandolin is a mid 90s Flatiron Artist F-5.

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[Tony Pearce]

Thanks lenf12. You are correct, the '34 (I thought it was a copy of a 1935 in a catalogue) was produced in a very limited run. I don't believe I've ever seen one come up for sale.
Your friend is a lucky man!

[Bernie Daniel]

Jesse Brock's Sam Bush F5 does sound fabulous, but so did his Hester F5. Cafe member Jordan Ramsey plays a Bush that is supposed to be great as well. My experience with the few Sam Bush models that I have run across is that like most mandolins, they need to be played "like you whip a mule" to open them up, but once opened they're nice flavors of the Gibby F5 sound.

Yes indeed! There really are a lot of BG mandolin players that use the Sam Bush model --Paul Williams is another that comes to mind.

There are many others --watching shows like the Cumberland Highlanders and the Ronnie Reno Old Time Music show I see them all the time. But then owning one myself I tend to notice them right away.

I think as much as anything for a long time it was the only Gibson F-style model you could buy with both the wider nut (AFAIK they are all 3/16") and a radiused fret board. A lot of players like those features.

Like most Gibson mandolins Sam Bush models sound great but really no different than other Gibsons. The 2002 F-5 Fern that I sold to make way for the 2001 Sam that I have now was every bit as great of a mandolin. But like most SB mandolin players I wanted more space on the fret board and prefer the wider nut for my size XL hands!

[Mickey King]

They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, here's my cedar top Lafferty Deluxe special ordered from TMS built by Paul Schnider. Played by some feller who wears overalls all the time!

[Bernie Daniel]

They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, here's my cedar top Lafferty Deluxe special ordered from TMS built by Paul Schnider. Played by some feller who wears overalls all the time!

Well it sure looks like a Sam and it sounds really strong as well. It looked like Mike was enjoying playing it as well. The nut is 1 3/16" also and fret board radiused? What were you going for with the cedar top board? Cool mandolin made in the USA!

[Mickey King]

Yes Bernie, wide nut and radiused. I think I could have been just as happy in the long run with a 1 1/8 nut. Dennis was already having Paul build the deluxe models with the cedar tops and I like the sound of the video they had on YouTube for the Deluxe Vine model. It sounded opened up from day one. I just ordered the block inlays and flowerpot, I didn't like the vine inlay anyway. I also have a friend with a redwood top Deerstone and liked videos of Silverangels with cedar tops. Nate Lee in Nashville also played it and said it was much stronger than a Weber he just sold with a cedar top. I had considered briefly that a used Sam Bush might be a better investment as as far as resale, but I could not be happier with my Lafferty! I only got to play one Sam Bush Fern in Seviereville and I think mine kicks its butt!

[davidb1]

I have a 2002 Sam Bush with the straight cut at the top of the board..similar to the pic that Ivan Kelsall posted ...It sounds seriously good. It sounds better than any mandolin I have heard in the same room..except for 1..A new Gilchrist ...never the less..I still love to play it , and the sound is great..

[Mike Snyder]

Jordan Ramsey has the best Bush I've ever heard. You hear some good instruments sitting through the mandolin competition at Winfield and his is the best Gibson-style box that ever crossed that stage. On my scorecard he won that year. Unfortunately my card was not official. One hell of a mandolin.

[CES]

Cool seeing Sharon Gilchrist on bass. Thanks for posting that link, Ivan! It always impress me when pros can play at that level on an instrument not considered their "primary." I play several instruments as well, but no where close to that level. The work and dedication to be able to reach that level on even one instrument is impressive. And, of course, the talent!!

I've never had the pleasure of playing a Sam model, but I do like their features...

[Big Ed]

Thanks for the video of Alan and Jesse. Why haven't these great players won Mandolin player of the year?
Jesse Brock's Bush has standard string spacing, standard fret wire, lower action and great set up.
I did the same on my 02 Bush that has the fret board cut like "Hoss". Very pleased with the retro set up, however played a 2000
Sim Dailey signed F5L last week that sounded better. Has the true Gibson chop I can't get with the Bush.
Can anyone tell me why there is difference.

[DataNick]

I don't know about the "true Gibson chop" but Big Joe has documented on numerous threads on the Cafe that the subtle spec differences in Gibson F5 models do affect tonality slightly. I do think the Bush models tend to have their own flavor of Gibson tone, but I would still classify them as having "Gibson" tone and/or chop. Just sounds like that particular F5L really spoke to you sonically.

[Gail Hester]

Thanks for the video of Alan and Jesse. Why haven't these great players won Mandolin player of the year?

Jesse won in 2009. Here is the entire list.

• Adam Steffey - 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2008, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014
• Jesse Brock - 2009
• Chris Thile - 2001
• Ronnie McCoury - 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000
• Sam Bush - 1990, 1991, 1992, 2007

[Eric C.]

Wow 25 years of awards and we can literally count the winners on one hand.