Home Speaker Monitors

[Astro]

I am wondering if its worth upgrading my cheapo computer speakers for the little bit of recording I do. Currently I have a no name powered pair of 4x4 cubes with matching sub that I purchased with a desk top computer 10 years ago.

I cant spend what it takes to get great recording quality speaker monitors.

So, with a limit of say 250 dollars for the pair, does anyone have a recommendation ?

[Bill Stokes]

For years I monitored with stereo speakers, powered with a Yamaha R5 receiver. All of it was yard sale stuff; very inexpensive.
But those receivers have a very flat frequency response, and my speakers did also.
Point being, you don't have to have powered monitors for accurate reference. Though most people will say you do. (They are just obediently repeating what everybody else said.)
The legendary Yamaha NS-10 was an unpowered monitor; originally a stereo speaker.
If your computer speakers aren't too bass-heavy with that subwoofer, you may be getting a fairly accurate image.
Do you have other stuff to listen with, like headphones, home stereo, etc?

Anticipating some static,
Bill

[foldedpath]

I am wondering if its worth upgrading my cheapo computer speakers for the little bit of recording I do. Currently I have a no name powered pair of 4x4 cubes with matching sub that I purchased with a desk top computer 10 years ago.

I cant spend what it takes to get great recording quality speaker monitors.

So, with a limit of say 250 dollars for the pair, does anyone have a recommendation ?

That's a very tight budget for a new pair of monitors. Push it to $300/pair and you could get into JBL LSR305's, although you might still need a sub with those.

Have you considered buying used? Many people upgrade eventually from lower-cost monitors, and if you stick with the better brands like KRK, Yamaha, JBL, etc., you can probably find a good used pair within a $250 budget. Home recording monitors are a fairly safe bet on the used market, because almost all of them are self-powered with limiters, which means they can't be easily abused.

For years I monitored with stereo speakers, powered with a Yamaha R5 receiver. All of it was yard sale stuff; very inexpensive.
But those receivers have a very flat frequency response, and my speakers did also.
Point being, you don't have to have powered monitors for accurate reference. Though most people will say you do. (They are just obediently repeating what everybody else said.)

With respect (and here comes the static), I disagree, especially if we're talking about entry-level monitors -- the "prosumer" range of gear. With powered monitors, you get an amp matched to the speakers. These days, it often means tailored digital EQ and crossover, as well as bi-amping, which is tricky to set up unless you're a speaker expert. Considering the fairly inexpensive and decent-sounding powered monitors out there now, I don't think it's a knee-jerk parroting of popular opinion to say that powered monitors is the way to go.

There are exceptions but they tend to be on the higher end. For example, I use passive monitors, but they were supplied with their own dedicated 4-channel (for bi-amping) rackmount power supply with some built-in DSP wizardry. The speaker designer is a believer in passive speakers. But only with his own external amp.


I know it can be fun and rewarding to put together your own passive speakers and power amp, and I don't want to discourage anyone from tinkering. But it takes experience to get something that's as good or better than the current offerings in powered monitors. This gear is really, really good... especially as the price gets up past the $1,000 range and into brands like Focal, Genelec, Event, etc.

The legendary Yamaha NS-10 was an unpowered monitor;

Yes, and those are still used in pro studios, especially for mixing. But mixes are usually checked, and always mastered, on more full-range systems.

One of the hardest things to figure out when learning how to mix and "self master," is figuring out how bass levels will translate. Not so important for a solo mandolin recording, but for anything with acoustic guitar or actual bass, it's critical to know what's happening in the bass so it translates well to consumer speakers. That's why mixing on headphones isn't a great idea (IMO).

[Mark Wilson]

That's a very tight budget for a new pair of monitors. Push it to $300/pair and you could get into JBL LSR305's, although you might still need a sub with those........One of the hardest things to figure out when learning how to mix and "self master," is figuring out how bass levels will translate. Not so important for a solo mandolin recording, but for anything with acoustic guitar or actual bass, it's critical to know what's happening in the bass so it translates well to consumer speakers. That's why mixing on headphones isn't a great idea (IMO).

I went from Alesis Monitor One's to Rokit 6's and finally to JBL LSR4326P's that cost more than I wanted.

And still getting bass levels to translate the first time has been the hardest thing. TBH I should have gotten the 8" monitors - my thinking was - "i'm just doing acoustic tracks".

I've come to think that unless you are using a matched sub or have 8" woofer or better the bass translate issue remains. And even then you still have to learn how the music should sound thru your system by a lot of trail and error.

[Barry Wilson]

spend that money on good closed headphones

[Mark Wilson]

spend that money on good closed headphones

Yep.

Unless you already own GOOD headphones - then I'd look at used monitors. You might check GC used stock. I prefered the Alesis One's over the Rokit's fwiw. The rokit's look cool tho.

[Bill Stokes]

Buying used is a good suggestion.

I glanced at Craigslist for Charleston and saw a pair of Mackie monitors for a hundred and fifty...

[foldedpath]

I went from Alesis Monitor One's to Rokit 6's and finally to JBL LSR4326P's that cost more than I wanted.

And still getting bass levels to translate the first time has been the hardest thing. TBH I should have gotten the 8" monitors - my thinking was - "i'm just doing acoustic tracks".

I've come to think that unless you are using a matched sub or have 8" woofer or better the bass translate issue remains. And even then you still have to learn how the music should sound thru your system by a lot of trail and error.

It took me years to learn that lesson about "knowing where the bass is," and how it will translate to other speaker systems. Of course that's even more complicated now than it used to be, because "other speaker systems" can mean anything from an actual nice home theater rig, to a bass-heavy car stereo system, to someone jogging with their phone and cheap earbuds with no bass at all (or "synthetic" bass hype, which is worse).

We do what we can. It's all about hitting a middle ground that can sound fantastic on a high-end system, and doesn't completely fall apart on that jogger with cheap earbuds.

For the longest time, I worked with an exceptionally nice pair of Westlake BBSM4 passive nearfield monitors (ported cabinet twin 4" drivers)... very clean, good for hearing deep into the mix. But they needed a sub, and that always drove me crazy trying to get the right balance. And that's with a decent-sized room and room treatment. I even tried two subs, one under each monitor for better coupling.

Finally, I decided to get 8" bi-amped nearfield monitors that are so large they're practically mid-field monitors. You can't do that in a small mix room, but this room can handle it. Now I know where the bass is, without a sub. At least for acoustic music. If you're doing hip hop, techno, or any other contemporary Pop format, you still need a sub to know where the "brown note" frequency is in the sub-bass.

[almeriastrings]

We do what we can. It's all about hitting a middle ground that can sound fantastic on a high-end system, and doesn't completely fall apart on that jogger with cheap earbuds.

Yes. Not easy!

It is all a compromise. The old method of listening to your mix in the car, via 'phones, and via several different speakers still holds true. It can be very useful. A slightly (just!) updated version of that which I have found helpful is the Focusrite VRM Box.

You have to learn how to use it, but it can be very handy for spotting problems. It should not be relied upon instead of proper monitors, but as an addition checking tool, it has a place.

I have been using Dynaudio BM5A's (despite the '5' they actually have a 7" LF driver) for years and found them very, very good as a nearfield. Getting to "know them" is important, as with any monitoring system. They are very "honest" and easy to work with.

On passive monitors, I have a pair of 5" single driver little boxes made by violinist Vanessa Mae's engineer/producer, Boris Sass, which he developed for his own studio. I have these on an A/B switching system with the active BM5A's, driven by a 100wpc amp. I can switch between them when working, which is excellent. As I said to Boris, those things have a wonderfully uncolored mid-range and an incredibly quick transient response, which is like putting a magnifying glass on your mix. After I have done the main work on the BM5A's and Boris's little speakers, I do a final check with the VRM box and listen to it in the car as well. If it sounds OK on that lot, then I know I'm pretty much there.

Speakers have improved a lot in recent years = better computer design methods, new materials, etc. So much so that I would personally not buy used unless it was a well known model from a very respected brand. Then you might get a deal, but there are a lot of very sub-par speakers (compared to current technology models) out there.

$250-$300 is a tough one... the previously suggested JBL LSR305's are certainly top contenders in that range.

[mandroid]

Patch cord 1/8" TRS plug from sound card to RCA plugs into the home stereo .
Or small studio Monitors..

or have it 1/4" plugs into your Mixer [( Did this for a while (adapter, cheap )]

Though many have a channel to play recordings for breaks in sets , that works Too..


Yesterday I ordered these http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-a...#productDetail


Have a Yard sale set : 'Cambridge Audio', still has the 50 cent sticker on them .
BBC & "Pacifica" internet radio .. Youtube & cafe MP3 clips

but for recording Monitoring Yes .. Good Headphones ..

[AndyC]

I'm only a novice but very happy with my Tannoy Reveal 402s as a small powered pair so far.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsJhw8wEAM8

[mandobajo]

Yamaha MSP5 are really serious monitors, you can find them used

[Astro]

I greatly appreciate everyones advice. Lots to learn as usual. Sounds like I'd better keep learning and saving.

Now comes the part where I reveal just how little I know about any of this.

Do most home studio monitors just plug from your lap top into the speaker the way my computer ones do ? Am I going to have to buy other stuff in between? Honestly I just want as simple as it can get. This is a hobby for me and I'm not making mixs for anyone else. Most everything I do ends up as an mp3 anyway and for that I hear a lot of these auiophiles saying the sound quality is so poor on mp3 mixs that the accuracy of the monitors may not matter that much.

It seems a lot of the speakers talk about getting this or that external sound cards. And, I dont see the usual type input plug thing on the back of these speakers. Currently I either use my MacBook Pro's earphone jack or more often I usually run it out through USB into my Apogee Duet then into the computer speakers which are preconnected to themselves and a sub.

Maybe what I really want is just a good pair of desk top computer speakers?

If I get real studio monitors, will I need other sound cards or connections ?

[Don Grieser]

Your Apogee Duet will work just fine. Go from the 2 outs on its breakout cable to the speaker ins. You may need a different cable depending on the speaker input jacks.

[almeriastrings]

As Don says, you'll just need an pair of cables to extend the two 1/4" balanced jack output sockets. Many powered speakers have 'combo' dual XLR & 1/4" jack sockets, but a few may have XLR only. Check when ordering cables. You will need either:

1 pair Male 1/4" TRS Jack to Male XLR (balanced)

or

1 pair Male TRS Jack to Male TRS Jack (balanced)

There is also a full 'Breakout Box' available, but it does not offer much in the way of practical advantage and is quite pricey.

The Duet is an excellent interface... one of the best dual channel units out there. They sound great.

[Jim Nollman]

Kind of late in this thread to be offering advice, so I'll keep it short. At your budget, I think your best bet is to buy used. If you can read between the lines of an EBay advert, you'll find that some of the monitors up for sale are a casualty of studios that never got the attention they needed to justify the expense. Why not look there, find some monitors that meet your price point, and then ask this crowd about those monitors specifically? I am happy to offer you some advice about certain JBLs, because I have used only JBLs in my own studio for many years.