Bluegrass Underground

[journeybear]

Still searching for Season 1. As we can see from this, though, they were more bluegrass oriented in the second season, though still hardly strictly bluegrass.

Season 2 Taping Schedule

2/24/12
Del McCoury Band
The Civil Wars
Doyle Lawson and Quicksilver
David Mayfield Parade

2/24/12
Vince Gill
Jim Lauderdale
The Timejumpers
Sarah Jarosz

2/26/12
Jerry Douglas
Scott Miller
The Black Lillies
The Vespers

[Eric C.]

If someone knows Willie's beliefs on what bluegrass is - or isn't- why on earth would they open a thread with "Bluegrass" in the title, in the "Bluegrass" forum that was started by Willie other than to directly attack him? There is no requirement to open every thread on the forums, especially one that so obviously would upset and offend you to the point that personal attacks would be typed up? Bad form.

[Timbofood]

Gee Mark, sounds like you have an axe to grind with Willie. This is all about opinion, I think we know where Willie stands and increasingly we are learning about what you like, the two may never align which is fine but, you don't need to get snotty about it, do you?
Just saying, it's a lot easier to be nice.

[Mark Christensen]

I personally opened the thread because I like the show and thought for once Willie might have something good to say but no the same ol' "That ain't Bluegrass" BS. What's bad form is condemning working musicians making a living and posting about it. He could easily have chosen to change the channel and keep his mouth closed.

[Mark Christensen]

Hey Timbofood, again you're sticking up for your buddy, I get it but I have just as much of a right to express my opinion as he does on this forum and I think it's in really poor taste to judge working musicians for no other reason than he doesn't agree with the title used. It's ridiculous. That nice enough for ya?
I decided to add this Timbofood, I've read plenty of comments from you where you're pretty snotty( you're word) to other posters including myself in the past, is this a one way street or do you practice what you preach?

[Timbofood]

Mark, I have expressed my opinion, maybe a bit harshly from time to time, but what I see coming from you toward Willie is pretty pointed. I don't know Willie from Adams off ox and have taken exception to his views in the past, so, I will simply excuse myself from this little rant.
I have watched "BG Underground" a few times, and Willie, had you only seen the Doyle Lawson show, you might feel differently, I have only seen the clip shared earlier in the thread, not to my normal taste but, mighty hot picking by the Traveling McCourys. As far as footwear, if he's not waving a stinky foot in my general direction, who cares? I completely agree, we have the ability to excercise complete censorship, change the channel, or turn the thing off!
Have a better day tomorrow, both of you.
T

[Mark Christensen]

Oh I get it, when you do it TimboFood it's a bit harsh but when I express my opinion it's pretty pointed. So I guess it's a two way street then? Sounds like Hypocrite St. to me and I don't appreciate the digs that this is a rant or I'm having a bad day. I was expressing my opinion.

[Timbofood]

"Life gets tedious, don't it?" Doc Watson
Good night Mark

[DataNick]

Speaking from experience (when I got into it with JourneyBear), Bluegrass is a topic best left alone on the Cafe. A fascinating topic that stirs up the most heated emotions, but one best left alone, IMHO. I don't see where either side of this debate will ever agree, or come to some kind of consensus.

And to set the record straight for myself; though I may disagree with you, I respect and stand up for your freedom of conscience in any thought process, Bluegrass included.

[Timbofood]

Cooler heads may or may not prevail come the 'morrow but, I have been subject to venom before and will walk away from a personal attack, un warranted as I may feel it may be. We must simply agree to disagree, and not call names, Yes?

[journeybear]

I'm not completely sure, but I think the disagreement Nick and I had that one time was more about semantics than music. I don't see any reason why bluegrass should be off-limits for discussion. It's bound to come up here, pretty often. And I don't recall any instances where Tim has said anything snotty. He may have made an attempt at humor that fell a bit short - we all do that, and lord knows I've done so myself - but I haven't noticed any attitude from him of that sort. Anyway, I don't see why this subject should be generating such high emotions. It doesn't seem warranted in this case.

[Tom Coletti]

I don't know how this went from repetitive exasperation to genuine animosity, but 2:03 AM is as good of a bedtime as any.

Reopen with caution. Some tact may help, too.

--Tom

[Franc Homier Lieu]

Well, this might not clear the air, but it could provide some relief from the pent up pressure on this thread: Keller Williams' cover of the Bill Monroe classic:

[journeybear]

My local PBS station will be running this episode tonight. Then I'll get to see for myself what all the fuss is about. That is, whether it's a lot of huffin' and puffin' for nothin', or, what's all the hubbub, bub?

[Willie Poole]

Mark, I usually tape all shows that are called bluegrass and then when I watch a few songs and don`t like what I am hearing I hit the stop button rewind the tape..

Like I said I don`t know what I have done to piss you off.... I guess you can play and call music anything you like....And I will do the same, if you think that was bluegrass then that is your opinion and you certainly are entitled to that....I`m sorry if my definition isn`t the same as yours.....

I hope this is finished now...I won`t answer any more on this subject so you can have the last word, it seems that is all you want anyway....

Willie (BOOTS)

[CES]

Willie,

Your opinion regarding footwear, or the lack thereof, is completely irrelevant to whether someone is playing bluegrass music. I'll avoid social commentary about generational and genre related differences regarding definitions of professionalism, but that ain't got nothing to do with how someone's music sounds...

Peace,
Chuck

[Jackgaryk]

My local PBS station will be running this episode tonight. Then I'll get to see for myself what all the fuss is about. That is, whether it's a lot of huffin' and puffin' for nothin', or, what's all the hubbub, bub?

JB...just checked my local pbs listing and tonight features dave egger (cellist, pianist) with amy lee (classical trained pianist and rock band vocalist) along with a irish hip hop dance group called hammerstep. hope you enjoy your BGU show tonight.

up here in north Georgia that probably aint gonna get a lot of blugrass fan attention. but like you JB....I could be wrong.

[journeybear]

Mm-hmm, yep. That episode ran here six weeks ago. Hit or miss on that one. And definitely NOT bluegrass. Nor was the following week's offering, Jason Isbell. But if they follow the same schedule as my station, in two weeks you'll get David Grisman Folk/Jazz Trio - not bluegrass, but that mandolin picker shows some promise, if he sticks with it - followed by Lucinda Williams, who was excellent, and then The Gibson Brothers, some actual bluegrass, for a change.

Someone might want to write the show's producers a letter, suggesting they consider changing the name to better reflect the music they feature. They may well feel that they've built up a fan base and name recognition and don't feel such a change is needed or wanted.

Here's what I have for this season's broadcast schedule (I posted this a couple-few weeks ago on the Mandolins On TV - Advance Notice thread).

Widespread Panic
Steep Canyon Rangers
Dave Eggar with Amy Lee; Hammerstep
Jason Isbell And The 400 Unit
David Grisman Folk/Jazz Trio
Lucinda Williams
The Gibson Brothers
Davina & the Vagabonds
Keller Williams with The Travelin' McCourys
Shovels & Rope
Hayes Carll
Michael Martin Murphey
Chip Taylor

[Timbofood]

Hey BOOTS,
I am fond of Dan Post and Tony Lama personally.
I think you and I have a somewhat similar feel for our musical preferences, others may or may not, I have no interest in the challenge of changing peoples taste, I find it completely futile.
Somehow you and I have deeply offended some folks here, I am content to let sleeping dogs lie.
Apparently agreeing with one is defense of an opinion to another.
Done with this one.
Thanks to Tom Colleti and JB for their voice of reason.
Time to make some afternoon snacks!
Comfortable house slippers!

[Jackgaryk]

I gotta tell you Tim...this thread has kept me on the edge of my seat. it has the makings of a good book and it may never end. btw I really like my timberland boots.

[Timbofood]

Soap opera more accurately!
I have a pair of "Chippewas" I got about thirty years ago, they are still going strong, and a pair of UGGs patterned after Sorels about thirteen years old and they are going strong. I am not hard on footwear.
Thanks Jack!
Be careful, you may now be a "buddy" and could be..... Well, you get it

[Tom Coletti]

I don't think anyone is arguing about whether or not it's bluegrass at this point. From what's available online, their set was a non-traditional acoustic outing that covered a variety of genres and cross-pollination through 5 of the main bluegrass instruments, save for the one more-or-less traditionally-approached bluegrass tune that I mentioned and analyzed on the first page.

The blanket-statement dismissals regarding shoe or no shoe (or young people on the west coast or Chris Thile's hair or names on a headstock in the last few escapades) seem to be what cheesed off the most people, simply because they're pointless, petty visual aesthetic arguments that derail any relevant discussion on sound. The refusal to give the McCourys a shot sans Del was another somewhat hasty judgement, since they really do follow more of a traditional strain than most when they're not playing with Keller. It's surely possible to be a bluegrass band that plays in the traditional style but occasionally showcases other abilities to better relate to a guest musician's different background. That being said, the "stop yelling at me so I can yell at you" method of conveying a point didn't really work here.

--Tom (FLIP FLOPS)

[Mark Christensen]

So what's the purpose of this forum? To put down working musicians or others trying to enjoy the mandolin? Is it to placate to a few with thousands of comments with their snide remarks? This post it's about Keller Williams, last it was about Ricky Skaggs then it was about some kids he jammed with in Florida and on and on. I don't see how these opinions on an open forum would change anything about Traditional Bluegrass, other than to dump on people I don't see the point, to me it's bordering on bigotry, that's what I'm objecting to. I have a thick skin, in fact most of the time I'm laughing about the response's to my response's but that doesn't change the fact IMHO that dumping on other musicians is not what this forums about regardless of your so-called Bluegrass pedigree. If that's ok with you that's more of a reflection on you than me. I'm not a fan of Keller Williams but he's not the first musician to not wear shoes on stage. It has nothing to do with the music, period.

[Tom Coletti]

Hell, I made one of those dumb "Bill Monroe sucks" threads in the past, only to realize that I was drawing hasty conclusions from examples from his waning years that weren't his best playing, so once I saw the full picture I grew out of that stigma and had some respect for the guy when I later delved into his philosophy of not wanting to copy people. That put his adamant opposition to others copying him a more noble perspective: he was trying to prevent the formation of the current bluegrass police. Bluegrass was progressive when Bill and the Bluegrass Boys started it, and he wanted it to keep progressing with new artists and new influences.

My point, Mark, is that we all say stupid crap that we later grow out of. Willie will probably look past unkempt hair and bare feet at some point, and then we can all laugh it off over a pint while playing Temperance Reel in a final act of irony.

--Tom

[Timbofood]

We are all our own worst enemies or best friends. Given an opportunity to simply play some tunes together, I hope, Mark, Willie and I would just play some music and not piss anyone off. No harm, no foul, simple difference of opinion, isn't that REALLY what this crankiness is all about?
I have been wrong before but, not been wrong about having an opinion.
From "Paper Moon":
" You go to your church and, I'll go to mine"
Pax vobiscum