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Thread: Bluegrass Underground

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Bluegrass Underground

    OK, so I just watched this episode, and I've got mixed feelings. First, they sounded more bluegrass-y than I was expecting, yet half the time they didn't sound like traditional bluegrass. They used the elements and instruments of bluegrass, sometimes in interesting ways, but somehow the overall effect wasn't very involving. I kept nodding off, which is not a good sign. The pickers were good, the singing was fine, it just was lacking in some way. I didn't feel much passion, or at least not enough to maintain my interest. I don't think it had anything to do with someone performing barefoot, which I probably wouldn't have even noticed if it hadn't been mentioned here. It did seem a bit weird, though - never seen that in a bluegrass context, or, for that matter, for a guy to do it. Girls do it now and then, and more in the pop and rock world; Joss Stone is known for this, for instance, but on an oriental rug, not on a bare stage in 56° room. Not that it matters, but, eh, whatever.

    It's worth noting that right at the start of the show there's a bit of introductory footage with the following four title phrases in succession: "Bluegrass - Roots Rock - Neo-Folk - Americana." This is their way of telling viewers what to expect, regardless of the name of the show. So, you know, tune in, but pay attention, and you won't misunderstand.
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    Registered User Rex Hart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bluegrass Underground

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Coletti View Post
    Hell, I made one of those dumb "Bill Monroe sucks" threads in the past, only to realize that I was drawing hasty conclusions from examples from his waning years that weren't his best playing, so once I saw the full picture I grew out of that stigma and had some respect for the guy when I later delved into his philosophy of not wanting to copy people. That put his adamant opposition to others copying him a more noble perspective: he was trying to prevent the formation of the current bluegrass police. Bluegrass was progressive when Bill and the Bluegrass Boys started it, and he wanted it to keep progressing with new artists and new influences.



    My point, Mark, is that we all say stupid crap that we later grow out of. Willie will probably look past unkempt hair and bare feet at some point, and then we can all laugh it off over a pint while playing Temperance Reel in a final act of irony.

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    I know, I got my head bit off on this forum one time for merely suggesting that some of Bill's later works were not all classics and I am a huge Monroe fan. Some things are sacred cows.
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    Default Re: Bluegrass Underground

    JB, don't you just get mad at yourself when you build something up and then you fall asleep in the middle of a show? It must be either age, or less than stellar entertainment.
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    Default Re: Bluegrass Underground

    Well, yeah, and it was a bit of both. Plus it runs at 12:30 AM here, I'd had four or five beers at the gig, so ... I wasn't all that psyched about it to begin with, and if it had been more involving it might have been different, but I was taping it anyway so it didn't really matter if I dozed off ...
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

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    Default Re: Bluegrass Underground

    Well, so ... just to keep all y'all in the loop, the Miami PBS stations have gone to pledge programming. I didn't know they did this in March, but there you go. And they started a day or two early, so that took care of the next few installments of this program - and Austin City Limits, Front And Center, and who knows what else, until the other side of this, which will last all month. And there's no guarantee they will pick up where they left off, or even if they'll continue with these shows. They really are the worst about this, devoting at least a third, maybe nearly half, of the year to pledge programming. And a lot of it is just the most godawful stuff. So that means this much-debated show will be the last impression of the series running through my mind. Thanks to all concerned!
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

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    Default Re: Bluegrass Underground

    J.B....I noticed that the show hasn`t been on up here in Tampa/Lakeland area for the past two weeks either, some schedule changes or maybe a lot of complaints, who knows...

    Willie

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    Default Re: Bluegrass Underground

    Well, it's back for me here, starting tonight, and picking up right where it left off with the next act on the season schedule, Shovels & Rope. Next week, Hayes Carll. No MC, though ... But I'm just grateful the fundraising is over, apparently early. Hopefully that's a good sign.
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

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    Default Re: Bluegrass Underground

    One of the best shows Ive ever seen was the Travellin McCourys with Dan Tyminski! Trait down the road, low down bluegrass

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    Default Re: Bluegrass Underground

    Bluegrass music MUST drive or it ain't grass. I'm not talking speed, the classic Country Gentlemen, Flatt and Scruggs, Jimmy Martin as well as others did slower songs, but they all had that DRIVE. That great bluegrass tambourin player I saw on bluegrass underground last night did not. There is a lot of good music on B.U. But it ain't bluegrass so why call it bluegrass.

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    Default Re: Bluegrass Underground

    Oh, for cryin' out loud! Did you read through the thread before you got up on your soap box? This subject has been dealt with exhaustively. All you're gonna do is stir it all up again and take this thread back down the rabbit hole that it took a lot of doing to save it from. Phooey!
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

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    Default Re: Bluegrass Underground

    JB, I wonder just how true your statement about how some folks may or may not actually read a thread before jumping in for whatever reason, positive or negative.
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    Default Re: Bluegrass Underground

    Well, I read the whole thread before jumping in. There are certain things that the average person who likes bluegrass, looks for when a show/album/band/whatever is labeled "bluegrass." If you're going to call a show Bluegrass Underground, and then feature Shovels & Rope, someone's going to take exception to it.

    There's a certain perspective, which can be summed up by, "What I like is bluegrass, what I don't like isn't." Usually followed by some grumbling about repertoire, instrumental technique, personal appearance/hygiene, or other factors.

    Even Monroe grudgingly acknowledged that his "hippie fans" had more specific knowledge and appreciation of his music, than a lot of his more mainstream-Southern listeners. There can be musicians who really love traditional bluegrass, were raised playing it, and can still play it beautifully and traditionally -- but still want to do something different, whether they consider it "extending the boundaries," or just going in a different direction. How about Thile, Grisman, Fleck, Skaggs, Bush, Statman, O'Connor, Douglas -- couldn't we compile a near-endless list?

    As someone who really has enjoyed bluegrass for 50 years, I've sat through controversies about electric bass, piezo pickups, female lead singers, drums, harmonica, long hair, costume, lead guitar, extended jams -- and more topics that I've forgotten. "Newgrass" and "jamgrass" and "jazzgrass" and what-the-hell the New South was doing with pedal steel. It's an endless source of debate -- which is not an excuse to get personal, guys.

    Bill Monroe was an innovator (obviously) when he put together the style. Other innovators have come along; some innovations were accepted (Josh Graves' Dobro, lead guitar from Doc Watson, Dan Crary, Tony Rice et. al.). Others are still frowned on (Charlie McCoy's harmonica). No one's gonna solve it, no one's "right" or "wrong," it's a matter largely of taste within a pretty loose framework.

    If we accept that, we can start being nicer to each other, I think.
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    Default Re: Bluegrass Underground

    Allen - Points well-considered and well-written as usual. Pretty much in agreement on all that.

    Tim - I may have been in a bit of a grumpy mood at the time, but it did strike me that way. It seemed to me, and still does, that the subject had been done to a turn and nothing new was being added. Perhaps if the poster had said something like "I agree with so-and-so when he said such-and-such" I would most likely have just rolled my eyes and muttered under my breath. Such was not the case.

    Times like this I wonder whether I'm wasting my time formulating commentary on various issues if people aren't reading what I have to say. Regardless of its worth, if it's been contributed to a discussion, it behooves one to get up to speed with what's been said already before saying more. Repetition can easily lead to a discussion going around and around rather than toward something more elevating. Repetition can easily lead to a discussion going around and around rather than toward something more elevating. Repetition can - well, I think I've made my point, No need to drive this deeper into the ground.

    To sum up, then: "What is bluegrass?" isn't really the question here. "What is 'Bluegrass Underground' and why is it called that?" is. No one here seems to know the answer to that - not that this will stop people from guessing - but the show did start out more bluegrass-oriented than it is now, and it still does include bluegrass in its programming. I suggest people who have issues with the show's name write its producers and let them know. We're just chatting amongst ourselves here, without having any actual effect on the rest of the world.
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

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    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bluegrass Underground

    I like your take on it too Allen, nicely put.
    JB-I get grumpy too, I know what you mean about someone jumping in with a repeat of an earlier complaint with no acknowledgement to the prior post. I have been the subject of some less than courteous posts when simply agreeing with someone. Opinions and tastes change for some, in sometimes irratic manner. And as Allen said (to paraphrase) music changes, and is appreciated in many differing personal ways.
    I started out with very straight traditional taste in BG music, I have become more accepting of more recent developments in the music, some is simply not for me. I won't shriek "That's not" anything about anyone's interpretation of a musical style, it just may not be mine. I have said it before:
    It would be a boring life indeed if we all liked exactly the same things!
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    Default Re: Bluegrass Underground

    Exactement, mon ami! There are so many kinds of music, and so many variations within these, it's a virtually endless form of amusement. And to be sure, if this show did provide nothing but bluegrass, I would probably not be tuning in quite so frequently. (I'm not a big bluegrass fan, but I do like a lot of different kinds of music, bluegrass included.) I like these shows that offer a wide variety of styles - even Austin City Limits, though sometimes I wonder about their choices, too, over the last few years. It's always good to hear something new from musicians you already know and like, and also learn about ones you don't. It's like what Woody Allen said about relationships and sharks, that have to keep moving or they die. You don't want to be left with a dead shark in your CD player (or iPod, or turntable). It can be really hard to get the smell out.
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

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    Default Re: Bluegrass Underground

    I've watched many YouTube clips of the Bluegrass Underground & they seem to have bands from many genres of 'country music'. I assume they do that so that their programmes suit a wide array of people,not simply the die hard Bluegrass fans. One of my favourite US Bluegrass Radio stations is ''The Bluegrass Mix'',with the accent on the 'mix' part of the name. They play a selection of country music from across the board,from Bluegrass to what used to be called Country & Western,but i'd say that maybe there's still more bluegrass than other forms of country music being played. I tuned in yesterday & found to my horror that they're now broadcasting adverts,i assume to raise cash for the station,so who can blame them really. It has however taken the bloom off my listening & 'pick-along' pleasure. The other US station i used to listen to,''Front Porch Bluegrass'' was fine until somehow or other,i began to get ads. broadcast for UK products & companies. How that happened i don't know.
    The bottom line is that these days, in order to keep their heads above water,radio stations et al,are having to broaden their horizons & try to appeal to more folk - haven't AKUS been doing that for a long while now. They quit calling themselves a Bluegrass band a few years back,& i quit buying their records. However, i'm sure that the stuff they do record sells to lots of folk outside the Bluegrass field - so be it !,
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    Default Re: Bluegrass Underground

    The point I was making in my last post was the name of the program. Some seemed to misunderstand that. There is a lot of good music on there as well as some not so good IMHO but why call it bluegrass when only a small percentage is bluegrass. Supose there was a show entitled History of the Gibson Mandolins, when you turned it on there was hundreds on mandolins all brands and a story of each but the only reference to a Gibson was the A Jr. And a lump scroll. While all the information on all those mandolins would be interesting would you not think the program was misnamed.

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    Default Re: Bluegrass Underground

    They call Gatorade a sports drink but, it doesn't contain sports.
    I appreciate your point mandoplumb, and as stated, it started out with a far more BG direction. It has had to broaden it's scope, just as Austin City limits has, I have not seen much of anyone on there I care about in several years. So here we have the responsibility of the viewer to edit their own choices regardless of title, change the channel if you don't like what they are showing or, shut it off and go practice. We few mandolin/bluegrass hard liners will never be the majority, and will suffer a lot of headaches if foot stamping over what is or isn't our view of what any genre may be. When I don't like something, I put in a movie, easy enough.
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    Default Re: Bluegrass Underground

    Quite a few years ago I attended the festivals at Graves Mountain Va., while I mostly did field picking I did spend some time at the stage listening to good bluegrass and then for some reason all of that changed and they started booking some non bluegrass bands so I don`t go any more mainly because it is about 90 miles from where I live one way.....As I have stated on here many times, play what you want and call it what you like but a die hard bluegrasser knows what the real deal is...I like and listen to other kinds of music so it isn`t that I don`t like what is being played at the festivals, it`s just that I don`t think it is right to call it a "Bluegrass festival" and have it all mixed up with other forms of music...One year at Culpepper they booked a few country acts along with bluegrass acts and people left the stage area when the country bands came on, they were good bands but people just wanted bluegrass and that's what they expected to hear... We had a jam session up on the hill that had three times as many people listening to us than what was at the stage listening to Grand Pa Jones and then Porter Wagoner, and they were a big draw at The Opry... Porter later recorded a bluegrass album and sent me a autographed copy of the record, I knew Mack McGahee from years before and he introduced me to Porter....

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    Default Re: Bluegrass Underground

    From Tim - "... it doesn't contain sports.". It doesn't contain Gators either - but of course you knew that !. At the weekened show at the IBMA Festival back in'92,not all the artistes on board were Bluegrass either. It was the first time most folks had seen or heard Leroy Troy & he knocked 'em cold !!!. Eddie & Martha Adcock's spot was more 'Folky' than Bluegrass as well,but who cared,certainly not the audience. I have to admit one thing as well,personally,a 100% non-stop Bluegrass show would get a bit tiresome,too much ''all the same sound''. The relief that other music forms brings isn't to be underestimated,& sometime,i've found myself thinking ''I like this stuff'' on being presented with a different form of music. I can't imagine too many folk being disappointed if,in the context of a Bluegrass show,a duo as good as Gillian Welch & David Rawlings came on stage to play & sing.
    As long as Bluegrass Festivals stick 'mainly' to Bluegrass & keep their identity,then a variety of 'associated' music should go down well (IMHO).After all,isn't what we do as musicians as much about the instruments we play,as in what genre of music we play them ?. Good musicianship in any genre of music works 'for me' - as long as i like the music. If i don't, i just wait for the next band along,
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    Default Re: Bluegrass Underground

    "Good musicianship in any genre works for me." Boy, ain't that the truth! I love hearing pretty much any musician that "knows his onions" play. Some genres, even played by the "best", don't snap my cap however. It's easy enough for me to excercise ultimate censorship and turn them off.
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    Default Re: Bluegrass Underground

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Kelsall View Post
    personally,a 100% non-stop Bluegrass show would get a bit tiresome,too much ''all the same sound''. The relief that other music forms brings isn't to be underestimated,& sometime,i've found myself thinking ''I like this stuff'' on being presented with a different form of music. I can't imagine too many folk being disappointed if,in the context of a Bluegrass show,a duo as good as Gillian Welch & David Rawlings came on stage to play & sing.
    Yes to all that. I'm sure this is why there is the diversity we have been seeing for a good long while at festivals. Also, offering variety increases the chances people who might not attend if it were strictly bluegrass will be interested in going, and then be introduced to bluegrass and other artists they might not have had the chance to hear otherwise. I think willie's objection is that some of the people in these lineups are a bit too far from bluegrass for his liking. Also, the name of the festivals. As much as one could say, "What's in a name?" it does matter, and could affect some people's decision-making process.

    As long as Bluegrass Festivals stick 'mainly' to Bluegrass & keep their identity,then a variety of 'associated' music should go down well (IMHO).After all,isn't what we do as musicians as much about the instruments we play,as in what genre of music we play them ?. Good musicianship in any genre of music works 'for me' - as long as i like the music. If i don't, i just wait for the next band along,
    Good points, and good qualifiers. I especially like the point about the instruments. When I first started going to bluegrass festivals, one motivation was that I knew I would hear mandolins being played. At the time (mid-80s) that was a pretty rare occurrence. Even if I wasn't crazy about the style of music, I enjoyed hearing the instrument being played well by people who knew how, and I took a lot of cues on how it was done from hearing and seeing that - and applying this learning to how I wanted to play, even if I was playing different types of music.

    PS: Just in case anyone is confused about how Gatorade got its name (and if anyone really cares), it was developed by and for the sports programs of the University of Florida, and named for them - the Gators.
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

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    Default Re: Bluegrass Underground

    So, JB if it had been developed by the "other" school it might have been called.......
    Wait for it....







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    Default Re: Bluegrass Underground

    If a festival is going to incorporate a variety of music types then let them put that info in their fliers and maybe change the name to "Bluegrass/country/folk festival" I would still go....I also have heard a lot of different kinds of music that I really enjoyed , I`m just saying that I don`t hold with a promoter calling it bluegrass just to attract more people...I must agree that after three days of listening to bluegrass I don`t even want to play it on the radio on my way home...Now I only got for one day....

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    Default Re: Bluegrass Underground

    did'nt BM tell Grisman&Garcia that he'ld teach them bluegrass but then they would have to invent their own style because bluegrass was his??

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