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Thread: how does this CL scam work ?

  1. #1

    Default how does this CL scam work ?

    Today, I received an email responding to my CL mandolin ads.

    The email sender says he/she want to buy my mandolin at my asking price ;-)
    , but still on business trip so will send a money order to me, then arrange for an assistant to come over to pick up. The send request my name and my address (should be no big deal).

    This is the 3-rd time I got this kind of email.

    The first time, the "buyer" said he wrote a check for an amount 200$ more than my asking price, and asks me to re-imburse the difference. I replied I will do after I cashed his check. Never heard from this "buyer" again.

    I am wondering how this scam works, i.e., how does the scammer make money with this scheme ?

  2. #2

    Default Re: how does this CL scam work ?

    The first step is to engage the seller in correspondence and hope that greed takes over common sense... You'd be surprised at their success rate... Just look at the Stock Market and Casinos...

  3. #3
    Registered User James Rankine's Avatar
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    Default Re: how does this CL scam work ?

    Previous thread on this topic here

  4. #4
    Registered User Kevin Stueve's Avatar
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    Default Re: how does this CL scam work ?

    the scam relies on people not really understanding how check clearing works. They send you a check for 200 more than the amount. You deposit in your bank 48 hours later the funds are available to you so you send them back the extra 200 dollars. about 3 to 5 days later the check you originally deposited fails to clear due to insufficient funds and which point your bank removes that entire amount from your account and a bounced check fee. So you are out the product, 200 dollars and a bounced check fee.

  5. #5
    fishing with my mando darrylicshon's Avatar
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    Default Re: how does this CL scam work ?

    Never give out your address when selling on craigslist
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  6. #6
    Registered User zedmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: how does this CL scam work ?

    I know someone who got a similar reply when trying to sell something--and the email received mentioned, "The item", but never actually said what it was--seems that scammer got lazy and had one email to copy & paste for each attempt at the sale.
    Would it save you a lot of time if I just gave up and went mad now?

  7. #7
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: how does this CL scam work ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kstueve View Post
    the scam relies on people not really understanding how check clearing works. They send you a check for 200 more than the amount. You deposit in your bank 48 hours later the funds are available to you so you send them back the extra 200 dollars. about 3 to 5 days later the check you originally deposited fails to clear due to insufficient funds and which point your bank removes that entire amount from your account and a bounced check fee. So you are out the product, 200 dollars and a bounced check fee.
    And the scammer pockets $200, and maybe gets a mandolin.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

    The entire staff
    funny....

  8. #8

    Default Re: how does this CL scam work ?

    I only take cash on CL and I always meet the resin in a public place, preferably with security cameras all over.

  9. #9

    Default Re: how does this CL scam work ?

    I don't blame seller's "greed". Criminals are criminals. The seller just wants to sell his item and buy something else or pay a bill. No greed involved on the seller's part. Our slow economy might motivate a seller to correspond with one of these characters, due to lack of interest by "cash customers"--that I can see. Now the "greed" of the criminal is another story.

  10. #10

    Default Re: how does this CL scam work ?

    Post#4 explains clearly how this could work. The first time I got this scam email, I replied: I will refund the difference AFTER cashing out the check (not deposit). Each time I deposit a check in my account, the clerk always inform me how much is available now (from this check) and when the full amount is available.

  11. #11
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: how does this CL scam work ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kkmm View Post
    Post#4 explains clearly how this could work. The first time I got this scam email, I replied: I will refund the difference AFTER cashing out the check (not deposit). Each time I deposit a check in my account, the clerk always inform me how much is available now (from this check) and when the full amount is available.
    I am not sure that is always true, though I have seen it on some of the sites that explain this scam.

    I was once told that even after the bank clears the check, if the check is later is determined to be fraudulent you are out the money. In other words and even if the check fools the bank, you still owe the money.

    I know it seems kind of weird, but that is my understanding. I don't know if that has changed, or perhaps it is different for different amounts or in different states, but what I understand is that you are not necessarily safe just because the check clears.

    I didn't and don't understand how this can be, I thought that a check only clears when the money arrives at your bank from the bank issuing the check, but apparently, at least in some cases, it is more complicated than this.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

    The entire staff
    funny....

  12. #12

    Default Re: how does this CL scam work ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kkmm View Post
    Post#4 explains clearly how this could work. The first time I got this scam email, I replied: I will refund the difference AFTER cashing out the check (not deposit). Each time I deposit a check in my account, the clerk always inform me how much is available now (from this check) and when the full amount is available.
    That isn't necessarily the real time frame. The check as it were cashes instantly and money is transferred between banks via the Fed. Part of the time lapse is a gigantic money maker for banks. Every 24 hours that a bank has your money + the trillion or so that passes through banks everyday adds up! If you have money in the bank then you are essentially covering the check and that amount is usually what determines how much cash they will "front" you. The in authenticity of a check, particularly if the person that is floating the check knows what they are doing, can take much longer to be discovered. A while back there was a lot of this type of scam involving cashiers checks(supposed to be always good right!?) that sometimes took weeks before the bank finally realized that the check was fraudulent. The people floating these checks knew something about how the system works and found a hole in the fence. Maybe the banks have corrected how this scam worked,I don't know--maybe it's still going on. Your always on the hook for the money no matter how long it takes. Banks balance the books everyday before they turn out the lights and they are correct to the penny!

  13. #13
    bon vivant jaycat's Avatar
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    Default Re: how does this CL scam work ?

    Take the check to the bank it's written on (not your own bank) and cash it for cash money.
    "The paths of experimentation twist and turn through mountains of miscalculations, and often lose themselves in error and darkness!"
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  14. #14

    Default Re: how does this CL scam work ?

    By the way having a PO box rather than a street address is a good way to keep these scammers away. That courier coming to pick up the item or the extra cash is probably not from Acme Courier Service but is very likely some very bad dude who is going to leave with the cash one way or another. If confronted with a PO box # they're likely to give you a pass and you'll never be solicited this way! The whole point of what they are trying to do is to get YOU to cash their check for them --they really aren't interested in what your selling!

    These scams probably don't involve local --take it to the bank it was written on personal checks, or at least I would be very surprised if they do. I have had banks want me to carry a check to the actual branch that the check was written on, you can never tell from one branch to another. I've taken checks to a branch of a bank to cash a customers sometimes big check and they have told me to take it to the actual branch that my customer uses. I've gone down the road to another branch and they've cashed it no problem. Doing this might not be so convenient!
    Last edited by barney 59; Mar-17-2015 at 4:30pm.

  15. #15
    Registered User RichM's Avatar
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    Default Re: how does this CL scam work ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jaycat View Post
    Take the check to the bank it's written on (not your own bank) and cash it for cash money.
    The check is a fake. You're not getting any money. The only way you beat this scam is by not getting involved in the first place.

  16. #16

    Default Re: how does this CL scam work ?

    Never give out your address when selling on craigslist
    For small instruments like guitars, mandolins, ukuleles, etc.. one can meet in a public place.
    If they can also be plug-in (electric), then you have to have a way to prove that it works. I used a microBOSS as an adapter between the instrument cable and the car stereo.
    However, for large items (piano, futniture, etc...) how can you avoid giving out the address ?

  17. #17

    Default Re: how does this CL scam work ?

    The check is a fake. You're not getting any money.
    If you get no money, then do not send the instrument or anything.

  18. #18
    Registered User Kevin Stueve's Avatar
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    Default Re: how does this CL scam work ?

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    I am not sure that is always true, though I have seen it on some of the sites that explain this scam.

    I was once told that even after the bank clears the check, if the check is later is determined to be fraudulent you are out the money. In other words and even if the check fools the bank, you still owe the money.

    I know it seems kind of weird, but that is my understanding. I don't know if that has changed, or perhaps it is different for different amounts or in different states, but what I understand is that you are not necessarily safe just because the check clears.

    I didn't and don't understand how this can be, I thought that a check only clears when the money arrives at your bank from the bank issuing the check, but apparently, at least in some cases, it is more complicated than this.
    Most banks make all the funds available to you before the check clears all the way back to the originating bank. This scam counts on that

  19. #19

    Default Re: how does this CL scam work ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kstueve View Post
    Most banks make all the funds available to you before the check clears all the way back to the originating bank. This scam counts on that
    The truth is that when you submit a check to a teller and they run it through that scanner the information is sent to the fed that subtracts that amount from the issuing bank and pays that amount to your bank and your bank has it before you hit the door. It's not money, hasn't been for years, it's electronically transmitted 0's and 1's. That green thing in your pocket is not the money it's a representation of those 0's and 1's that travel around the world at the speed of light. The value of the money is based on nothing but faith in Governments --there is no gold! There isn't a bunch of clerks wearing little green visors with a ledger book checking signatures, it's all electronic and all these transactions start and finish right now! The check cashing scams seem to rely on the fact that you have either money in the bank or good faith with your local branch and can retrieve the money from their bogus check before the bank knows that it isn't real. They want you to do it because banks have cameras and guys with guns and alarms that go off at the police station. They have you rob the bank for them and the bank doesn't care much because they just charge you for the robbery and maybe a fee on top!

  20. #20
    Registered User Kevin Stueve's Avatar
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    Default Re: how does this CL scam work ?

    Quote Originally Posted by barney 59 View Post
    The truth is that when you submit a check to a teller and they run it through that scanner the information is sent to the fed that subtracts that amount from the issuing bank and pays that amount to your bank and your bank has it before you hit the door. It's not money, hasn't been for years, it's electronically transmitted 0's and 1's. That green thing in your pocket is not the money it's a representation of those 0's and 1's that travel around the world at the speed of light. The value of the money is based on nothing but faith in Governments --there is no gold! There isn't a bunch of clerks wearing little green visors with a ledger book checking signatures, it's all electronic and all these transactions start and finish right now! The check cashing scams seem to rely on the fact that you have either money in the bank or good faith with your local branch and can retrieve the money from their bogus check before the bank knows that it isn't real. They want you to do it because banks have cameras and guys with guns and alarms that go off at the police station. They have you rob the bank for them and the bank doesn't care much because they just charge you for the robbery and maybe a fee on top!
    Well I work in IT and have written banking software. I get the whole ones and zeroes thing. But trust me, my daughter lost 3200 dollars in this scam. The initial funds available at 48 hours can be reversed about 3 business days later when the check image gets back to the originating bank.

    but you don't have to believe me. How about US Postal service ? https://about.usps.com/postal-bullet...l/kit_014.html

  21. #21

    Default Re: how does this CL scam work ?

    Hey, thanks. The link provided above (repeated here)
    https://about.usps.com/postal-bullet...l/kit_014.html
    really explains how this scam works. The fact that one cleared the check and got the money does not mean that money is safe in the pocket. If the check is faked, one still have to return the full amount to the bank.
    Next time, if I get one of these scam emails again, I will reply: DEJA VU.

  22. #22

    Default Re: how does this CL scam work ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kstueve View Post
    Well I work in IT and have written banking software. I get the whole ones and zeroes thing. But trust me, my daughter lost 3200 dollars in this scam. The initial funds available at 48 hours can be reversed about 3 business days later when the check image gets back to the originating bank.

    but you don't have to believe me. How about US Postal service ? https://about.usps.com/postal-bullet...l/kit_014.html
    But I do believe you --Yes, she got the money before the bank realized it was fake but after she had finalized the deal she had made with the person who gave her the check. The cashiers check scam was sometimes taking weeks before it was discovered that the check was fake. Maybe someone like yourself that writes bank software figured that one out because it was a pretty sophisticated hack. You bet, the bank comes cold bloodily after you for the money, accepting no responsibility. Part of the problem is that people don't read or believe that stuff that is all over Craig's List about avoiding scams. If you believe that the bank will be right on it informing you that the check is bad a lot of this would be avoided if people just held off finalizing the transaction until maybe a week after receiving the check but you'll sure make some people mad. Hey, use Paypal --forget checks --who uses checks anymore anyway? Well, besides me maybe--I don't think my kids know what a check is!

  23. #23

    Default Re: how does this CL scam work ?

    Just want to clarify something here. If the "buyer" says they've written the check for too much, it's a scam. It doesn't matter what you do, you will never get money out of that person, because it's a scam. There's no neat trick you can use with the bank to make sure you get your money. The money isn't there, they're not buying. It's a scam. Every time. By even so much as responding with "Go away, I know you're a scammer", you have proven that you're the kind of person that talks to scammers. If you get this kind of email, delete it, and move on.

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  25. #24

    Default Re: how does this CL scam work ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Magnus Geijer View Post
    Just want to clarify something here. If the "buyer" says they've written the check for too much, it's a scam. It doesn't matter what you do, you will never get money out of that person, because it's a scam. There's no neat trick you can use with the bank to make sure you get your money. The money isn't there, they're not buying. It's a scam. Every time. By even so much as responding with "Go away, I know you're a scammer", you have proven that you're the kind of person that talks to scammers. If you get this kind of email, delete it, and move on.
    Absolutely right --unless maybe you see yourself as some sort of vigilante. It's peoples greed that gets them to lose any sense of reason...the problem is you've made the deal and it's when the check comes it is for more --usually much more, than was agreed on. Then they get in touch with you and say it was a clerical error--please send back the difference. If it happened to me I would reply "No,there was no error,that is what we agreed on!" I wouldn't bother to attempt to cash the check nor would I send the item. Unfortunately you have to start trying to resell the thing.

  26. #25

    Default Re: how does this CL scam work ?

    I don't know about other countries, but if you fell for this scam here in the UK, then you might be in breach of money laundering laws.
    In the second movement, not too heavy on the banjos. Eric Morecambe

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