how does this CL scam work ?

[barney 59]

I don't know about other countries, but if you fell for this scam here in the UK, then you might be in breach of money laundering laws.

If you cover the check -lost your money that is, I doubt that you would be in violation anywhere. If you cleaned out your bank account and were unresponsive you could certainly be accused of passing bad checks at the very least!

[houseworker]

I don't know about other countries, but if you fell for this scam here in the UK, then you might be in breach of money laundering laws.

How on earth do you make that out? The whole point of this scam is that there is no money, the cheque's a fake. You can't conceivably launder money when there isn't any to launder.

[JeffD]

Lets say you were a dishonest individual. So you got this check, you suspect its not legit, but you want the money. So you go to the bank in the hopes of "making it their problem". You figure on getting the money and think you won't get caught. Yea stupid, I know.

Now I am not saying that is you. But to a bank I could understand that you could be confused for someone who would try that, in which case it is a legal issue, and maybe not just in the UK.


Similar to the person who accidently finds that at some point in the day he acquired a counterfeit bill. His legal responsibility is to turn it in right then. If he passes it on, hoping to avoid being out the money and avoid the hassle and time by making it someone else's problem, he has broken the law.

If he honestly doesn't know it's counterfeit, he didn't break the law, but someone could accuse him and he might have to get a lawyer.

[Upnorth]

How on earth do you make that out? The whole point of this scam is that there is no money, the cheque's a fake. You can't conceivably launder money when there isn't any to launder.

It depends on exactly how the scam works. You have something for sale. Someone offers to buy it from you, but offers payment in a cheque for more than the sale price. They ask you to pay them the difference in cash. If you pay the cash to the buyer, then you are merely being scammed and have broken no law.

However if you are in fact paying the cash not to the buyer but to a third person, then you might be in breach of money laundering laws.

[sgrexa]

I actually had not one but TWO very authentic money orders (Moneygram) sent just last fall both totalling around $900 each. This was for a $100 grill I was selling on Craigs List. I was told to cash both of them and wire the change. He would then come and pick up the grill the following weekend. When I asked him why I would need to cash the second money order, or why I wouldn't just give him change when he picked up the grill, he seemed puzzled? I handed over to local police who essentially did nothing. As stated above, as soon as they ask for something odd like giving change or cashing checks for more than the item is worth, do not even respond. I generally avoid Craig's list and only use it as a last resort for stuff that I cannot ship. Way too much fraud and general weirdness for my comfort level.


Sean

[Kevin Stueve]

But I do believe you --Yes, she got the money before the bank realized it was fake but after she had finalized the deal she had made with the person who gave her the check. The cashiers check scam was sometimes taking weeks before it was discovered that the check was fake. Maybe someone like yourself that writes bank software figured that one out because it was a pretty sophisticated hack. You bet, the bank comes cold bloodily after you for the money, accepting no responsibility. Part of the problem is that people don't read or believe that stuff that is all over Craig's List about avoiding scams. If you believe that the bank will be right on it informing you that the check is bad a lot of this would be avoided if people just held off finalizing the transaction until maybe a week after receiving the check but you'll sure make some people mad. Hey, use Paypal --forget checks --who uses checks anymore anyway? Well, besides me maybe--I don't think my kids know what a check is!

and guess what happens when your name is still on said daughters account because it was convenient when she was in college. Hint-- bank knows who has the funds necessary to cover the 3200 dollar overdraft and they get their money.

[Petrus]

Lets say you were a dishonest individual. So you got this check, you suspect its not legit, but you want the money. So you go to the bank in the hopes of "making it their problem". You figure on getting the money and think you won't get caught. Yea stupid, I know.

If you're that dishonest, you could just write back to the original faux-buyer and say, "Hey, I'll keep my mandolin which you don't really want anyway, send me one of your best-quality 'checks' for $8,000 and I'll send you back half the cash. In fact, send me several of 'em. Worst case you're only out the paper and ink."

[houseworker]

It depends on exactly how the scam works.

If you haven't grasped that yet I give up...

[Upnorth]

If you haven't grasped that yet I give up...

I do understand the nature of the scam, except that the scammer can ask you to pay the cash to him or to a third party. If you pay the cash to a third party then you may be breaking the law - at least in the UK. Do you understand?

[barney 59]

I do understand the nature of the scam, except that the scammer can ask you to pay the cash to him or to a third party. If you pay the cash to a third party then you may be breaking the law - at least in the UK. Do you understand?

That is such a stretch! You are not paying "their money" to anyone! Your paying "your money" that's the point! There's no "laundering" going on. Straight transaction -you to them! Something in your logic requires that that check is real in some way--it's is not! You did cash a bad check though which the bank will require you to rectify.
If in England you go to a store and make a purchase with a check or a bank card can you get "cash over" like here in the US?--or is that illegal there? That could be considered money laundering by your definition because it's pretty much what you are doing when getting bilked in this scam--your providing "cash over"! only there really isn't any "over"!

[Eddie Sheehy]

I'm sure scammers everywhere are encouraged reading the responses to this thread...

[barney 59]

I'm sure scammers everywhere are encouraged reading the responses to this thread...

I know! Makes you think doesn't it? Maybe I should join the other side I could sure use the money!
A couple hundred transactions a day nets one fool could be a pretty good living!

Advise to anyone falling for this scam...When the courier shows up to pick up the cash.- Look out at the truck and if it says "ISIL Courier Service" on the side of the truck lock the door and call 911!

[Jeff Mando]

Bottom line--NOBODY overpays for ANYTHING, do they? If they do, that should be a red flag.

Reminds me of the expose I watched on Russian "mail order bride" internet dating sites. A common ad reads, "attractive blonde, late 20's, doctor, speaks 5 languages fluently, no children, but would love to start a family, prefers older men 50-65." The scam, after you spend $10K plus, is she isn't a doctor, speaks almost no English, isn't in her 20's and she shows up with her two brothers, who are big fellas and need a place to stay..............did I mention she has a teenage daughter whose biological father just put a contract out on you.....oh wait, I think that was a Law and Order episode.

[rgray]

Today, I received an email responding to my CL mandolin ads.

The email sender says he/she want to buy my mandolin at my asking price ;-)
, but still on business trip so will send a money order to me, then arrange for an assistant to come over to pick up. The send request my name and my address (should be no big deal).

This is the 3-rd time I got this kind of email.

The first time, the "buyer" said he wrote a check for an amount 200$ more than my asking price, and asks me to re-imburse the difference. I replied I will do after I cashed his check. Never heard from this "buyer" again.

I am wondering how this scam works, i.e., how does the scammer make money with this scheme ?

Responses have explained the scam in which the buyer wants to write a check for more than the asking price and the seller is to refund the difference.

But the OP asked how the scam works when the buyer is going to send a "money order" and then have an assistant pick up the mandolin. I haven't dealt with money orders in probably over 30 years, but what happens in this instance?

[Upnorth]

That is such a stretch! You are not paying "their money" to anyone! Your paying "your money" that's the point! There's no "laundering" going on. Straight transaction -you to them! Something in your logic requires that that check is real in some way--it's is not! You did cash a bad check though which the bank will require you to rectify.
If in England you go to a store and make a purchase with a check or a bank card can you get "cash over" like here in the US?--or is that illegal there? That could be considered money laundering by your definition because it's pretty much what you are doing when getting bilked in this scam--your providing "cash over"! only there really isn't any "over"!

I did not use the term "their money", and it is rude of you to imply that I did. Also, my logic does not require the cheque to be real. It merely requires you to pay money in cash to someone you do not know.
I try to be polite when debating on forums, but people like you and housworker really annoy me with your lack of respect. If you cannot avoid misrepresenting what people say, then you would be better off not contributing to the debate.
Maybe it's time I quit this site.

[barney 59]

Responses have explained the scam in which the buyer wants to write a check for more than the asking price and the seller is to refund the difference.

But the OP asked how the scam works when the buyer is going to send a "money order" and then have an assistant pick up the mandolin. I haven't dealt with money orders in probably over 30 years, but what happens in this instance?

This scam has been done with cashiers checks and I don't see that it would be difficult to manufacture a money order but it would probably, just like the cashiers checks, require some inside knowledge as to how the routing works to get passed the first hurdle--getting someone to release the cash. An above poster said how he had been involved in writing bank software--maybe someone like him, or someone like him who got himself in hot water with the bad guys --you know drugs or gambling , having something to sell instead of getting the broken leg treatment. That's apparently been a good source for identity fraud information. You don't need to hack a site just lean on someone with access! Doing this with a postal money order is a sure fire way to get the dogs after you though!

To Upnorth --sorry I offended you but really I just can't follow your logic...directly paying my money that I can justify having( I didn't get it from a drug deal or something) to anyone cannot be considered laundering, otherwise paper money would be absolutely useless instead of the nearly useless that it is.

[Upnorth]

To Upnorth --sorry I offended you but really I just can't follow your logic...directly paying my money that I can justify having( I didn't get it from a drug deal or something) to anyone cannot be considered laundering, otherwise paper money would be absolutely useless instead of the nearly useless that it is.

Can I make it any simpler?

You are invited to pay cash to someone as part of a scam. This person may be the scammer, or it may be someone to whom the scammer owes money. If you are paying money to the scammer, then you are merely being scammed and have broken no law. If however you are paying cash to a third person then you could perhaps be in breach of money laundering laws - at least in the UK.

[JeffD]

Responses have explained the scam in which the buyer wants to write a check for more than the asking price and the seller is to refund the difference.

But the OP asked how the scam works when the buyer is going to send a "money order" and then have an assistant pick up the mandolin. I haven't dealt with money orders in probably over 30 years, but what happens in this instance?

I guess I don't see any difference. The money order is not real. That is the whole of it.