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Thread: Fiddler's Fakebook - Accurate?

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    Registered User TEvans's Avatar
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    Default Fiddler's Fakebook - Accurate?

    So I have been using the Fiddler's Fakebook for a while now. I've noticed on a few tunes here and there that what I'm reading isn't really matching up with how I often hear people playing these tunes - for example, temperance reel, and billy in the low ground.

    Have you all noticed these? Or am I just playing them wrong?

    Thanks!

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    Middle-Aged Old-Timer Tobin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fiddler's Fakebook - Accurate?

    Fiddle tunes have many, many variations and are open for personalization. Any fakebook is going to give you one version which may or may not be the most common way to play it. It's really more the chord progression and recognizability of the tune's personality that makes it what it is, not necessarily the exact notes. Even the chord progression can have variations, though, so there's nothing set in stone.

    It's what makes fiddle tunes so interesting. They're very adaptable within a certain framework. But a fakebook will give you a basic version that you can use as a base for your own spin on it.

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    Default Re: Fiddler's Fakebook - Accurate?

    Everyone has his or her own versions of these tunes. Sometimes the ornamentation varies. Often, phrases in the tune itself vary. Often, the tune will be played "straight" the first time through but then each player in turn plays his or her own variation. Sometimes the variations get further and further from the original until you wonder how they are ever going to get back to anything recognisable. So be encouraged! You are probably not playing them wrong.
    Alastair

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    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fiddler's Fakebook - Accurate?

    The tunes as written in the Fakebook are an accurate version of the tune, though it might not be exactly the version being played at your jam.

    The Fiddler's Fakebook gives a discography reference as to which of whose recordings the printed version is from, and the printed version is accurate to that.

    When it doubt don't sweat it. Variations between versions is half the fun. When I play at a jam I have never been to, far from home, I find that I can usually play between a third and a half of the tunes being played, and that my versions are recognizable and play fine just over top of their versions.

    Sometimes the difference is pretty radical, in which case I just have to listen and learn. I then take that new (to me) version home and beat up my jam friends with it.

    Sometimes the difference is easy to accommodate. For example, some places play Ragtime Annie with three parts, others only know of the A and B parts. If you know all three parts, you can play it anywhere.
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    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fiddler's Fakebook - Accurate?

    Individual player's Ornamentation is also hard to write down in standard notation . (or Tab)
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    Default Re: Fiddler's Fakebook - Accurate?

    If it was accurate would it be fake?

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    Registered User sblock's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fiddler's Fakebook - Accurate?

    Fakebooks often contain fairly accurate transcriptions, but typically contain just one version of how a fiddle tune gets played by a particular fiddler (and often, they note the recorded source, but this is seldom available to you). Fakebooks rarely supply additional versions, even though there well may be multiple versions that are being commonly played, particularly in different regions. They also rarely supply variations, either, even though the fiddler who sourced the transcription may play more than one variation himself/herself. It was said of one fiddler that "He rarely played the same tune once the same way!" Finally, fakebooks tend to provide minimal transcriptions, and they rarely supply all the ornamentations (triplets, bow shuffles, grace notes, slurs, and on and on) that are actually played. Some fakebooks don't even supply the chords. And those that do may not include the many variations of these that are also possible. And finally, fakebooks also contain plenty of errors of transcription, even though they do their best to expunge these. Think of fakebooks as bare-bones, error-prone (but best-effort), limited transcriptions of just one way to play the tune.

    That said, fakebooks will definitely get you started, particularly when you're first learning a tune, or are unfamiliar with it. Or whenever you have limited access to other sources, especially recorded ones. But they will not get you there. You have to do that yourself, ideally, with the help of other musicians!

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    Registered User Tom Smart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fiddler's Fakebook - Accurate?

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    The Fiddler's Fakebook gives a discography reference as to which of whose recordings the printed version is from, and the printed version is accurate to that.
    Are you sure? It seems to me a lot of the transcriptions are pretty dumbed down and sometimes just plain wrong, even compared to the sources cited.

    I once played a tune at a festival, and when I finished another fiddler told me I was playing it wrong. I said, "What do you mean? That's how I learned it from [so and so]. It's not like there's an official right way to play it." He replied, "Oh yes there is. Haven't you ever heard of the Fiddler's Fakebook?"

    Although I'm opposed to book-burning in general, that's when it occurred to me the Fiddler's Fakebook might be the one book on earth that should be burned for the good of humankind. I fear that it's creating a monoculture of fiddling.

    That said, I have a copy and even use it sometimes.

    The most accurate, detailed and enjoyable fiddle tune transcriptions I've come across are probably the ones in the Milliner-Koken Collection of American Fiddle Tunes.
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    Registered User sblock's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fiddler's Fakebook - Accurate?

    Yup. The Oldtime police are, in my experience, even worse than the Bluegrass police!! They cite some supposed fiddling authority, like "Ol' Zeke Tonedeaf from Harlan, KY," and insist that because he played it one way (well, sort of) on some scratchy recording made back in the Folk Scare Era, when he was good an' likkered up, we all have to play it that way. Henceforth and for all time.

    Some fiddlers forget tunes and make stuff up. Other fiddlers make mistakes. Other fiddlers put their own spin on things. Transcribers also make plenty of mistakes. Versions can vary by region, and over time. Variations occur. Ornamentation happens. The folk process is imperfect, and this imperfection leads to ... evolution! Get used to it, I say. Folk music is a process, not an end in itself.

    Appreciate fiddle fakebooks for what they are: a good starting point, but not an endpoint. A reference work does not have to be infallible to be valuable, nevertheless.

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    Default Re: Fiddler's Fakebook - Accurate?

    "Ol' Zeak Tonedeaf. I think I know him! That's funny

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    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fiddler's Fakebook - Accurate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Smart View Post
    Are you sure? It seems to me a lot of the transcriptions are pretty dumbed down and sometimes just plain wrong, even compared to the sources cited.
    I don't think anything in the Fiddlers Fakebook is dumbed down. If anything, compared to what is commonly jammed, their versions are sometimes more ornamented. Now I am talking more contra dance and old timey jams, not bluegrass jams. Bluegrass versions are often different again, and often fancy.

    I haven't checked all the sources, but the ones I have checked matched the printed tune.

    I once played a tune at a festival, and when I finished another fiddler told me I was playing it wrong. I said, "What do you mean? That's how I learned it from [so and so]. It's not like there's an official right way to play it." He replied, "Oh yes there is. Haven't you ever heard of the Fiddler's Fakebook?"
    Well who ever would say that is limiting themselves as a player.

    Although I'm opposed to book-burning in general, that's when it occurred to me the Fiddler's Fakebook might be the one book on earth that should be burned for the good of humankind. I fear that it's creating a monoculture of fiddling.
    I don't know. I think the Portland Collection, two volumes, are more popular in general. I could be wrong. But I get your point. I think there is a balance between destroying regional fiddle culture with "standardization" through printed books, on the one hand, and the entire loss of the fiddle culture altogether. I think the printed books have done more good in bringing together tunes for people to play and preserving tunes for the next generation, than harm, in "standardizing" the tunes. Most folks learning the music today are not learning it from their parents or in many cases their local community of friends and neighbors.

    The most accurate, detailed and enjoyable fiddle tune transcriptions I've come across are probably the ones in the Milliner-Koken Collection of American Fiddle Tunes.
    I love Milliner-Koken, but remember that is a transcription too, of the early and earliest recorded versions of the tunes. It is by no means canonical either. Take for example the tune Dry and Dusty, and compare the Morrison Brothers version in Milliner-Koken with Kenny Baker's version. Same tune two great versions. Morrison Brothers for pure old time gold, and Kenny Baker for bluegrassing it up. (The Phillips Collection has Kenny Baker's version written out BTW).

    I think the Fiddler's Fakebook does an excellent job of what it does, which is to document those tunes at that time. Its mostly for the most part how they are stilled played, recognizeably the same anyway. Though, like I say, to my experience many of the tunes in the fakebook's are little more ornamented than I like, because they reflect how they are played on the chosen record.

    Between the Fiddler's Fakebook and the Portland Collection, and add Milliner-Koken, my goodness you have a whole lot of music. I would only add the four volumes of The Waltz Book, Bill Matthiesen, and you have most of most of what you will ever need.
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    Default Re: Fiddler's Fakebook - Accurate?

    No tune book is canonical. This is not classical music. The written tune should be recognizable as the tune you want, but it will hardly be identical.

    Some tunes are in the Fiddlers Fakebook a couple of times because there is more than one great version of the tune, so if you know one and find the other you may think, well this is wrong. But heck Milliner-Koken has what, five?, version's of Grey Eagle?
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    Default Re: Fiddler's Fakebook - Accurate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Smart View Post
    I once played a tune at a festival, and when I finished another fiddler told me I was playing it wrong. I said, "What do you mean? That's how I learned it from [so and so]. It's not like there's an official right way to play it." He replied, "Oh yes there is. Haven't you ever heard of the Fiddler's Fakebook?"
    I always liked Kenny Baker's reply to "you're playing it wrong."

    I base my whole approach and repertoire around it.

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    Middle-Aged Old-Timer Tobin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fiddler's Fakebook - Accurate?

    Quote Originally Posted by sblock View Post
    Ornamentation happens.
    Ha! Love it! This should be on a bumper sticker.

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    Default Re: Fiddler's Fakebook - Accurate?

    It's Facebook. Everybody makes up stuff, trying to make themselves seem so cool and their lives so fascinating. They're always posting stuff like, "I just learned a new fiddle tune," or "Currently playing my fiddle," or "Here's my version of 'Devil's Dream." As if what they are doing is so important or great or the ultimate best whatever that it has to be shared with everyone.

    Oh - you said "Fakebook." Never mind.

    But still - the point about variations is on target. There are so many variations of some of these tunes, the actual standard version may be nearly impossible to determine. Also, it's not like these books are written by an authoritative committee that has sifted through every variation and settled on The One True Version - if such a thing exists. But they will get you in the ballpark, perhaps even into the infield, and then you can take it from there.

    Just look at the variations of what people have said here - mostly the same thing but in each person's different way. One man's "Zeke" is another man's "Zeak." Variations happen. It's only human.
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    Default Re: Fiddler's Fakebook - Accurate?

    I love the variations. And to some extent I don't mind individual spontaneous ornamentations, tastefully done. I don't care for improvisations.

    I like it when over time a tune changes, but nobody in particular is trying to change anything, they are all just playing the tune the way they think they learned it. And then you find some old old written source and see how thing have moved along.
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    Registered User Ky Slim's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fiddler's Fakebook - Accurate?

    Quote Originally Posted by journeybear View Post
    One man's "Zeke" is another man's "Zeak." Variations happen. It's only human.
    A lot of fiddle tunes are referred to by multiple names. Sometimes a name might be used to refer to more than one fiddle tune.

    I think the fiddle fakebook is great for what it is. Anyone that is into fiddle music should be aware that variation is common. As Tobin and others have said, variation is what makes fiddle tunes interesting.

    The Session is set up nicely for offering variations of tunes but it will never have them all.

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    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fiddler's Fakebook - Accurate?

    Quote Originally Posted by farmerjones View Post
    I always liked Kenny Baker's reply to "you're playing it wrong."

    I base my whole approach and repertoire around it.
    Uh ... Baker's response to that statement would likely have been to walk offstage and quit the band...
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    Default Re: Fiddler's Fakebook - Accurate?

    Quote Originally Posted by farmerjones View Post
    I always liked Kenny Baker's reply to "you're playing it wrong."
    Sorry if this is well-known, but I'm not catching the reference. What exactly was his response?
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

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    Default Re: Fiddler's Fakebook - Accurate?

    Try being an tin whistler in an irish session and not playing Sligo style around other whistlers.

    eek.

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    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fiddler's Fakebook - Accurate?

    Quote Originally Posted by sherrie View Post
    Try being an tin whistler in an irish session and not playing Sligo style around other whistlers..
    True.
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  30. #22
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    Default Re: Fiddler's Fakebook - Accurate?

    What's the difference between a violin and a fiddle?

    If you are playing it wrong, its a violin.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

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    Default Re: Fiddler's Fakebook - Accurate?

    Actually, the Fiddler's Fakebook is one of the best, most economical collections of folk tunes out there -- nearly 500 tunes in at least a dozen styles for ~$25 -- hard to go wrong. You need to keep a couple of things in mind:

    * First of all, it's a fake book. A "legit" fake book, but a fake book nonetheless. Fake books are meant to be simple lead sheets -- melody, chords, and basic form -- which just present the skeleton of a tune meant to be fleshed-out in performance. The earliest fake books were notoriously inaccurate, yet somehow many of the most famous names in jazz built up careers that started out with playing gigs from fake books. Compared to those early books, the Fiddler's Fake Book is really accurate.

    * Second, for better or worse, it's mostly folk music. For most of its history most folk music wasn't even written down. It was trasmitted from player to player by ear, with each player adding his personal stamp to the tunes as regards arrangement, form, embellisments, etc.

    IOW, there is no one "right" or "most accurate" way to play most of these tunes. There are as many variants as there are people playing them. For example:

    I play an old tune called "Farewell to Whiskey". For a dozen years I always heard it played as an up-tempo reel, and played it that way with three different bands. Three years ago, for the first time, I heard it played as an "air", at slow ballad tempo, by a fiddler who swears that's the way it was originally written (and he may be right). But so what? It sounds good both ways, and now I have two very different ways to present the tune.

    There was another tune I learned by ear, but never knew the name of. Played it for years but could never find out what it was. One day I found it, by accident, in the Fiddler's Fake Book. Except what I had always played as the "A" section was the "B" section in their version, and vice-versa. Came to find that it's played either way, depending on where you are in the world when you play it.

    The further you go into this kind of music, the more of this you will find. Tunes that started out as strathspeys or hornpipes became reels or jigs in other hands. Sections are transposed, inserted, or deleted; keys or harmonic progressions changed. Often one version is more common in the UK while another is more common in the US. Sometimes a new version becomes more popular that the original.

    (This happens in other musical genres, as well. Think of Ravel's Orchestration of Pictures at an Exhibition, that's been recorded 20 times as often as Mussorgsky's original solo piano version. Or All Along the Watchtower, far better known in Hendrix's electric version, very different from Dylan's original acoustic composition.)

    All this is part of the joy of folk music. The Fiddler's Fake Book in an amazing resource because it often provides several versions of a tune, and also references multiple recorded performances.

    The one thing I usually warn people about is to always buy the fiddle version of the book. It exists in mandolin, banjo, and a few other versions as well, but none of them include as many tunes as the original fiddle version.
    Dr H
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    Default Re: Fiddler's Fakebook - Accurate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr H View Post
    ...

    I play an old tune called "Farewell to Whiskey". For a dozen years I always heard it played as an up-tempo reel, and played it that way with three different bands. Three years ago, for the first time, I heard it played as...
    Nice to hear from you again doc -

    This is one of the benefits of playing in a lot of styles with a lot of different instruments - we tend to do things really different, sometimes, just as a natural inclination - curiosity combined with access/resources ..

    Or, we can just follow Terence McKenna's example, too ..


    (This happens in other musical genres, as well. Think of Ravel's Orchestration of Pictures at an Exhibition, that's been recorded 20 times as often as Mussorgsky's original solo piano version...)
    I played Albeniz's "Leyenda" - a guitar repertoire staple - for many years, before learning that it was composed on piano

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    Default Re: Fiddler's Fakebook - Accurate?

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    What's the difference between a violin and a fiddle?

    If you are playing it wrong, its a violin.
    A fiddle has beer-stains...

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