Bear claw on top: good or not?

[multidon]

I have seen many instrument ads where the seller brags about how pretty the bear claw on the top is. I myself own a spuce top guitar with a very attractive, to my eyes, bear claw pattern. The guitar sounds fantastic as well.

I have recently seen an ad where the seller was bragging about the lack of bear claw on the top, hinting that this makes it better somehow sound wise.

So is bear claw on spruce or other top woods detrimental to the sound? Or is it merely cosmetic?

It did get me to thinking that you never see bear claw on a violin top. Seems those makers avoid it.

What about silking? Same questions. Used to have a guitar with a very silky top. It sounded great as well.

[David Houchens]

I've never seen where bear claw makes any difference in sound. Cosmetic only. I like it myself. Others don't.

[belbein]

I guess if you're selling a product, you brag about what you got, hoping people figure that you wouldn't be bragging about it if it wasn't great.

[sunburst]

Bear claw was considered a fault, traditionally. Lots of spruce was rejected because of bear claw, C.F. Martin would not use it, it was considered "junk". Then, somehow, it became something to proudly display, to brag about, to advertise it's presence.
So, we can see why some say it's bad and some say it's good.
It is mostly cosmetic, but spruce with bear claw figure tends to be a little stiffer across the grain, so a good piece of spruce with bear claw figure may be slightly better tonewood than an "equal" piece with straight grain. As always, it comes down to each piece of wood.

[Timbofood]

Think of all the bragging the "Edsel" had.

[Dale Ludewig]

Hey, Tim. Them's fightin' words! My parents bought a brand new '59 Edsel and it was a fine car. Robin's egg blue and white. Not that I'm bragging or anything.

[Timbofood]

Not fighting words, I promise! Just advertising example, lots of "Edsels" were sold, just not enough to make them successful.
There were a couple of them around when I was little. I remember one in that color scheme, and one in black. So there were some sold.

[Ivan Kelsall]

My Czech built Lebeda has 'Bearclaw' grain in it's German Spruce top.To me,the mandolin sounds excellent & i tend to agree with John Hamlett's opinion that it's of cosmetic importance ( or not) only,
Ivan

[Spruce]

It did get me to thinking that you never see bear claw on a violin top. Seems those makers avoid it.

No, you see it all the time in old fiddles...
I remember an Amati with an especially nice one-piece top that was loaded in bearclaw...

Bear claw was considered a fault, traditionally. Lots of spruce was rejected because of bear claw, C.F. Martin would not use it, it was considered "junk". Then, somehow, it became something to proudly display, to brag about, to advertise it's presence.

Yeah, that all happened when Dana Bourgeois started featuring bearclaw when he was building the Schoenberg guitars.
1984 or so??
Right then and there the tide changed on the acceptance of bearclaw.
Before that, it was indeed considered to be a defect, (and still is by a lot of folks)...

It's quite hard to find.
Say 1 tree in 50 has bearclaw, and one in 30 splits straight.
Finding a good tree with bearclaw that splits straight is pretty rare...

And, the reason it's called bearclaw:



Normally, the cambium under the bark is smooth as a baby's bottom...
But on a bearclaw tree if looks exactly like a bear has sharpened her claws...

[HoGo]

Some old violins do indeed have bearclaw in their spruce tops. It is not often talked about but the old Cremonese fiddles spot lots of funky wood that modern makers wouldn't touch with yard stick.

OK, Bruce beat me :-)

[HoGo]

BTW, Bruce, are there different "types" of bearclaw? I've seen some logs that had zilion of short (1/4-1/2") bearclaws under bark and some with long strokes like what you show... What's the difference once it is split and planed flat?

[Spruce]

Some old violins do indeed have bearclaw in their spruce tops. It is not often talked about but the old Cremonese fiddles spot lots of funky wood that modern makers wouldn't touch with yard stick.

Just like today, some makers back then liked it and sought it out, and others steered clear...

[Spruce]

BTW, Bruce, are there different "types" of bearclaw? I've seen some logs that had zilion of short (1/4-1/2") bearclaws under bark and some with long strokes like what you show... What's the difference once it is split and planed flat?

I've had this conversation with a lot of millers who have a lot more experience than I with bearclaw logs...

In maple, you can tell a lot about what kind of figure you're going to see--and how strong it is--by looking at the cambium...
But with bearclaw, it's very hard to determine what the 'claw is going to look like when milled and planed, judging by the cambium...

And 'claw can do just about anything, from cool little dimples to long lightning strikes, and everything in between, but the cambium won't give away what you are going to see...

[chris storz]

I have learned to keep my bearclaws off my instruments. Makes 'em all sticky and I get crumbs down in the holes. A particular pain with F-holes.

[Timbofood]

That's why I went back to doughnuts!

[Dagger Gordon]

Dana Bourgeois wrote an article in Acoustic Guitar magazine in July 2005 (which I found lying around this very morning, strangely enough) called The Aura Of Adirondack where he talks a bit about bearclaw among other topics in what was a very interesting article.

Essentially he seemed to say that if people paid less attention to what they might consider to be visual aspects of the wood and more to the sound it produced, it might be more sensible.

http://www.acousticguitar.com/Magazine/Issues/151

[Dick Hutchings]

Now come on. MAS has little to do with being sensible.

[JeffD]

Bourgeois has a real good point. I appreciate beauty and allow as anyone can use any purchase criteria they want, but it is kind of funny. Especially how much we (me too) prize beautiful mandolin backs - the part that doesn't show unless we show it. OMG.

[sunburst]

...how much we (me too) prize beautiful mandolin backs - the part that doesn't show unless we show it. OMG.

Backs? What about braces, linings and head blocks? Rest assured, there are those with small mirrors and cable cameras examining every square mm of the inside of these wooden instruments, looking for sloppy work, glue squeeze-out, quality (perceived) of materials and construction.

[ilovemyF9]

My 000-28 Norman Blake Martin Guitar has bear claw; it is gorgeous looking & it sounds mind blowing as well. But does the bear claw effect the sound? I seriously doubt it.

[Dick Hutchings]

That to me is sad. Sure I try to keep all those details as nice as possible, why not? But are people really comparing the inside of their mandos? Incredible. I guess the exterior is usually so good they have nothing else to check.

Backs? What about braces, linings and head blocks? Rest assured, there are those with small mirrors and cable cameras examining every square mm of the inside of these wooden instruments, looking for sloppy work, glue squeeze-out, quality (perceived) of materials and construction.

[Spruce]

But does the bear claw effect the sound? I seriously doubt it.

I could flap my lips (and I have heard this opinion expressed, thankfully not by me) and opine that the 'claws interrupt the transmission of energy throughout the top....
But I honestly can't think of any way to confirm an opinion one way or the other....

All I know is that it is incredibly beautiful under varnish...
That, combined with it's rarity, make me a big fan when I see it in an instrument....

[greg_tsam]

Can't see much detail of the bearclaw but it's a pretty picture.