CT55 - lovely tone but not loud enough!

[Johnny60]

OK, before I get flamed for knocking Blue Chip...

I LOVE Blue Chip picks. I have a TD40 for guitar that is absolutely superb. Loud, punchy, very "grippy" without being sticky, not "clacky" in the least and a fantastic tone and great string clarity. It sounds great on every guitar I've ever played it on. But on mando it sounds a bit "thin".

So, I bought a used CT55 for mando. Lovely rich tone, really pulls out the bass notes but still retains the highs. BUT - it's WAY quieter than either my V-Pick Saga or Wegen T140. Is it me?

The V-pick Saga is certainly clickier than any Blue Chip but pulls out a good tone (IMO) and has decent volume. The Wegen, I always felt, sounded loud but with a loss of tone, so it was always used as my "loud jam" pick!

I recently bought a Northfield F5S (very nice!) and the Wegen sounds much better on this than it did on my Eastman 505. The Saga also sounds good. But I just can't seem to get much volume out of my CT55.

Has anyone else experienced this?

I've tried a John Pearse Fast Turtle (nice, but also quiet), a Golden GAte mando pick (sounds like my mando has a cold) and the 1.3mm teardrop shaped "grippy" Dunlop Prime Tone (loud but very trebly).

In the eternal quest for great tone (subjective I know) AND good volume, IF I can't get the CT55 to work, which pick which give me punch, clarity, volume, great bass AND retain a really rich ringing tone?

Not too much to ask for is it?

thanks

john

[John Hill]

I have the opposite result from my CT...compared to my Wegens (of various shapes & sizes) and definitely compared to my pro-plecs the CT is many times louder. Sometimes it's pick angle or attack that can make all the difference and the bevel on the CT is a bit extreme so that might play a factor too. I've ordered a new bluechip similar to the CT without the "speed bevel" for comparison sake...and general pick accumulation insanity.

[mandobassman]

I had the same problem with the Blue Chips that I used on mandolin. My main pick that I have used for the past 3 years has been a Wegen that was custom ordered with a rounded edge. I love the tone from this and it also have very nice volume. I also loved the tone from all of the Blue Chips that I tried but when it came time to gig with them, I felt like I had to beat the volume out of the mandolin. Didn't have that problem with the Wegen.
One of the picks that I have tried recently is the new Dunlop Primetine large triangle. It actually looks just like the BC CT55. Many people compare them very favorably with Blue Chip. I, personally didn't care so much for the tone, but the volume is unbelievable. It is by far the loudest pick I have ever used. I see that you used the "grippy" 1.3mm Primetone, but the smooth surface one is a different material, I think, and from what I've read, has a warmer tone. The one I used is 1.4mm which is the same thickness as the CT-55. Might be worth a try.

[UsuallyPickin]

odd .... but not unbelievable .... each mandolin and it's player are slightly different so pretty much any combination will come up with slightly different results...... I generally have folks comment on how loud my mandolin is while using a CT-55 .... I used a Wegan 120 & 140 before BC's hit the market ... good picks..... R/

[Johnny60]

Thanks for the replies folks.

John Hill - you mentioned the bevel on your CT is "a bit extreme". Just compared mine with the one pictured on the BC website and it's identical. Is yours a custom job, or is it just like the CT55 on the Blue Chip site?

Mandobassman - thanks for the pm!

UsuallyPickin - very true. Pick attack, weight of pick, angle of attack, etc all play their part. I just don't see myself as a "quiet" player, so it's bugging me that my CT55 has produced such a drop off in volume compared to all my other picks.

[mandroid]

Microphone and PA system?

Maybe you need to Pick Harder?

[Cheryl Watson]

V-Picks are definitely louder than Blue Chips and in general, they are crisper, sounding for me anyway. The V-Pick Gladiator is my go-to pick for jamming. The Primetones are louder than the Blue Chips, but they do not stay in my fingers as well.

[Willie Poole]

I find that one pick give loudness and another one gives tone but I don`t know of any that I own that gives me both so I just try and look for a balance when jamming and when I am playing into a sound system I go for the one that give the best tone....It is not a perfect world when it comes to picks and strings on a mandolin, also every one likes something different so advice on which pick or strings is sort of useless also...

Willie

[Cheryl Watson]

Yes, I go for volume and cut in a jamming situation, and on the mic, especially in the studio, I go more for tone than volume. But I agree, Willie, picks are a personal preference.

[mandobsessed]

I personally don't really like the BC picks, they sound too similar to a straight ultrex to justify the price for me. But the primetones...oh the primetones.

I use pointed triangles a 1.3 and 1.5 and they are one of my favorite picks,loud, warm and articulate. It took me a while to get used to the grip and I found I had to attack the strings a bit differently to bring out the bass response but now I really like them. Sometimes a new pick requires a bit different attack or attidude to make the best sound.

I also like the Wegen 140, which has a tone like a brighter, louder proplek (which is still my go to pick for practicing and jazz)

[JeffD]

In the eternal quest for great tone (subjective I know) AND good volume, IF I can't get the CT55 to work, which pick which give me punch, clarity, volume, great bass AND retain a really rich ringing tone?

Not too much to ask for is it?

I think the Primetones are a good compromise in this respect.

I noticed in my playing that the times where tone is most important, volume isn't, and the times where volume is most important, tone isn't.

Playing small venues, or at home with friends, or alone, I love the tone and go with my BC or Red Bear.

Playing in a large jam or large noisy venue where I need the punch, nobody can hear the tone anyway, so I go with a Wegen. Not that the tone is bad, but the Wegen doesn't have as complicated a tone, but plenty of punch.

In between, I think the Primetone is really an excellent compromise.

In my playing I have no need for a pick that does it all.

[James Rankine]

Microphone and PA system?

Maybe you need to Pick Harder?

I sit opposite Johnny60 at the bluegrass jam. I'd say there's nothing wrong with your volume/tone or technique Johnny. Sitting behind our instruments isn't the best place to appreciate the volume.
New mandolin and new pick that's got to be a combination that's going to take some time to adjust to - I wouldn't give up on the BC yet, unless you want to swap with one of my 1.4 Primetone triangles at the next sesion

[Robert Smyth]

I love my CT-55 but will eventually order the equivalent of a CT-60 or a CT-65 for the reasons above. The CT-55 is a bit bright on my Gibson and I feel going a bit thicker will mellow it out a little plus get more volume out of it. I love the speed and precision I can get out of that CT-55, though!

[Johnny60]

Hey all, thanks so much for all the replies and advice - much appreciated.

I'll be checking out a Primetone 1.4 non-grippy triangle soon, so will report back. In the meantime, I'll stick with the Blue Chip and see if I can bond with it a bit more.

James - good to hear from you and thanks for your kind words! If I don't have a Primetone by the time we next jam, then yes I'd love to have a go with yours.

Thanks all,

John

[Eddie Sheehy]

Try attaching a Schertler Dyn M to the pick...

[Bill Baldridge]

Like many others here on the Cafe, I have dozens of picks made from everything from wood, plastic, that material not to be mentioned, metal, and God only knows what. Some are thin enough to read through and others are 2mm or more. To my ear, the thinnest kind of plastic picks tinkle the strings, the metal rasps across the strings, the wood sort of thumps out a sound. If you stay within the BC choices at least the material variable is taken out of the equation, and since you are talking about the CT-55 that is where I will try to stay. I like BC picks because they sound as close to the material that is not to be mentioned as any pick I have found. Starting from there, when I am looking for volume I don't want a pick that flexes much. The energy I want driving the strings is absorbed by the pick bending. On the other end, I cannot get both the lovely mellow tones and the volume I need for a jam with a BC pick thicker than 1.5mm. I like the sound of a TAD-60 if I am at home pleasing myself. When I am in a large jam I use a CT-55 as the bevel produces more volume at the expense of the bottom end, but in that jam who's listening? My own compromise is the TAD-3R 50.

[RBMB]

Time to buy a new mandolin!

[JeffD]

I like the sound of a TAD-60 if I am at home pleasing myself. .

I agree. That is the best tone pick for me. That and the Red Bear Heavy. They sound very similar. When I go to my Wegen it is a TF-140. And the Primetone is a 1.4mm as well.

[Finger Stylish]

I had the same problem with the Blue Chips that I used on mandolin. My main pick that I have used for the past 3 years has been a Wegen that was custom ordered with a rounded edge. I love the tone from this and it also have very nice volume. I also loved the tone from all of the Blue Chips that I tried but when it came time to gig with them, I felt like I had to beat the volume out of the mandolin. Didn't have that problem with the Wegen.
One of the picks that I have tried recently is the new Dunlop Primetine large triangle. It actually looks just like the BC CT55. Many people compare them very favorably with Blue Chip. I, personally didn't care so much for the tone, but the volume is unbelievable. It is by far the loudest pick I have ever used. I see that you used the "grippy" 1.3mm Primetone, but the smooth surface one is a different material, I think, and from what I've read, has a warmer tone. The one I used is 1.4mm which is the same thickness as the CT-55. Might be worth a try.

Another vote here for the Primetones;
I do modify mine slightly by rounding off the point of the striking portion on the plectrum (just a little)

[renoyd]

I had a chance to try most of the BCs. The TPR models work best for me, specifically the 50 and 60. The rounded edges are nice for both picking and tremolo. The 60 is especially loud and clear. (Alternates which are also very good are the Saga Golden Gate and the David Grisman, though the latter is a bit large). If you like more traditional points, there is the BC model TP-1R-60 which gives you 2 pointy and one rounded corner for switching without stopping during a piece/song.

[terzinator]

I had a chance to try most of the BCs. The TPR models work best for me, specifically the 50 and 60. The rounded edges are nice for both picking and tremolo. The 60 is especially loud and clear. (Alternates which are also very good are the Saga Golden Gate and the David Grisman, though the latter is a bit large). If you like more traditional points, there is the BC model TP-1R-60 which gives you 2 pointy and one rounded corner for switching without stopping during a piece/song.

I had one like that, but I HATED the notion that not each point was equal. I always had to look at the pick closely to tell which point I was using, and that was just one more thing to think (and worry) about. (I need fewer things to think about.)

I've used the TAD BC's for a while now, CT-55, TAD-60, even a TAD-80. I go back and forth between them. Playing with a friend this weekend (he plays guitar), and he let me try his TPR-60. I really liked it a lot. Seemingly enough cut, but it had a smoother touch on the strings. So I'm gonna try one of those.

That will fix everything, I'm sure of it.

[Mark Wilson]

Just ordered a BC without a bevel. I prefer the grip and feel of my BC but prefer the sound of another pick I have with no bevel. I was thinking when I ordered it:

That will fix everything, I'm sure of it.

[lenf12]

You wanna double the volume of your CT55?......................Get a Rigel CT110 mandolin

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[Johnny60]

OK folks, quick update. Just received a non-grippy Primetone 1.5 triangle from Mandobassman (thanks!!).

It's signifincantly louder than the Blue Chip CT55 and the tone is quite similar. Not quite as loud as a Wegen TF140, but it has a sweeter tone. Need to play a bit more, but it's definitely up there in my top 3!

cheers

John

[PseudoCelt]

But I just can't seem to get much volume out of my CT55... Has anyone else experienced this?

I've noticed the same thing with my BC TP-1R 50. If I'm playing softly, the BC plays very easily and gives the impression that it's going to be loud when I dig in, but when I pick harder the volume tops out way before something like a Wegen TF140.

The Primetones are nice, but I tend to use the TF140 most of the time or a Red Bear medium F with no speed bevel.

Patrick