Suggestions for upgrading to a new Mandolin?

[Braden Palmer]

Hi everyone, I'm new to Mandolin Café. I'm first and foremost a guitarist, but picked up a mandolin 4 years ago and learned the beast rather quickly and am now gigging and teaching lessons on it. Started out with a Kentucky KM-505. I was able to set it up quite well, and it felt pretty good, other than needing a lot of pressure to play, which tired out my hands a bit. Anyways, the headstock broke clear off the other day - maybe having a strap looped onto the headstock slowly caused the damage, or maybe it's just a cheap mandolin. Either way, I need a new and better one and would like some suggestions from experienced players. I'd like to get an F style, and spend no more than $1500. Built in pick up would be a good plus, though I do have a Barcus Barry Outsider I can stick next to the bridge. Not crazy about it though, but it worked ok for the Kentucky. Thoughts? I play mostly bluegrass and jazz, and live in the NYC area - being able to try one first is always nice, but may not be possible as the stores near me don't have much in Mandolins. And I don't have a car, so Mandolin Brothers is a bit too much of a schlep unless I know exactly what I want, plus most of their selection seems to be expensive collector models. I'll go there if they have something that is highly recommended, though. Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

[renoyd]

Staten Island from NYC is a schlep? Then what would you call having to drive 5-6 hrs or more as many others have to do to get to a place with some selection? It will be worth your effort to go to to MB, you'll be able to try lots of variety and learn a great deal to help in your decision making even if you don't pick up an instrument that day.

What, you haven't left yet?

[Braden Palmer]

Renoyd, I didn't mean to imply that I don't want to go out there. It's a 5 hour block of time that I rarely have due to teaching lessons, playing, and other commitments. When I have a free day I plan to go. I haven't been there since 2005 I think, and I didn't even play mandolin then. In the meantime, do you have any suggestions regarding brands, models, etc...?

[allenhopkins]

For a good F-model under $1.5K, I'd look at the Kentucky KM-1000, Eastman MD-815 (a bit over $1.5K), Loar LM-700, JBovier F-5T -- if you want to buy new. All of them are hand-carved, all solid woods, and nicely finished and appointed.

Mandolin Brothers are a Kentucky dealer, and a phone call will determine what they have in stock. Their website also displays new Loars, though they don't claim to be a Loar dealer. Matt Umanov on Bleecker St. has new Eastmans in stock, though his website only lists MD-515 and MD-615 models now; again, a phone call would get you more info.

At your price point, as far as new instruments are concerned, you're basically in the "high-end Asian import" range. If you want to go used, check the Cafe´classifieds and see if there's anything there that interests you. JBoviers (Korean made, I believe) get lots of props here on the Cafe´, but they're a bit harder to find in stock.

[Braden Palmer]

Thanks Allen, very helpful.

What do you and others think of Gibson A style models? I've seen vintage ones in my price range, both with F-holes and with a tone hole. As a guitarist I love the feel of my Gibson (I play an ES335). Will these sound good for bluegrass/jazz? Should I rethink getting an F style to get a better playing mando for my money? My Kentucky is/was an A with F-holes.

[JeffD]

For bluegrass I think an arch top would be preferred, and you can buy more mandolin for budget with an A style.

Remember too that you do not have to spend your budget. If you find what you like for a grand, save the difference and put it towards the mandolin you are going to buy from Mandolin Brothers in the future.

Yea, like you won't.

[DataNick]

Braden,

This one: Hopkins F5
this one: 2008 Wynn
$300 more gets you this Northfield NF5S
this: Eastman md515
this one: Harwood F5

And there's probably more if you keep going through the classifieds.

Happy Hunting!

[samlyman]

Braden:

I can understand why you would want recommendations but what seems to happen in threads such as this is that many people seem to recommend what they play or want to play. Another factor is that you cannot get a very good F-style mandolin for $1,500 or less. You might get lucky and find a used Pac Rim mando but there are a lot more poor quality F-models in your price range than good ones. You would be better off getting a better quality A model if sound is what you are after as the scroll has nothing to do with tone or volume but adds significantly to the price. Case in point - my Collings MT2V lists for a little over $5,000 while its sister with a scroll - the MF5V lists for twice as much.

[Al Trujillo]

I picked up a new Weber Gallatin for $1699... a little more than your budget, but I've seen others that were within the top of your budget. I'm a rookie here so about all I can suggest is keeping a sharp eye on the Classifieds. There appear to be some outstanding instruments within your range; albeit they are used (if that matters?).

[chuck3]

I picked up a new Weber Gallatin for $1699... a little more than your budget, but I've seen others that were within the top of your budget. I'm a rookie here so about all I can suggest is keeping a sharp eye on the Classifieds. There appear to be some outstanding instruments within your range; albeit they are used (if that matters?).

sure are ... like this: http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/85906

[John Kinn]

Braden,

This one: Hopkins F5
this one: 2008 Wynn
$300 more gets you this Northfield NF5S
this: Eastman md515
this one: Harwood F5

And there's probably more if you keep going through the classifieds.

Happy Hunting!

That Northfield looks like a GREAT deal!

[J Mangio]

When making your selection, an important feature of each mandolin is the neck profile;

small frets or large frets, neck profile, and nut width.

[Capt. E]

I just recently found a near mint 1920 Gibson A-2 for $1300 with the original case etc. It is absolutely my favorite right now. There are so many A's out there, you can take your time and find one in perfect playing condition with great tone. I would look for an A-2 over a plain A (part of it is "The Gibson" on the peghead and the full binding). An A-4 would be even better if you can find one you can afford.
The old A's are very good for jazz, blues and old-time. They can be quite capable with bluegrass as well. They have a wider fretboard than most modern instruments, and have thin frets (which many feel are better than the newer wide ones).

Playing a vintage instrument is a personal thing and if it appeals to you, go for it. Play before buying or have a return privilege if you can.

[Tim2723]

To all this wisdom I can only add the one great truth I've known: Buy the best acoustic you can and add quality electronics rather than depending on the handful of AE instruments out there.

[Braden Palmer]

Thanks for all the advice.

Chuck, that Gibson looks beautiful. I'm going to try this one out today I found listed at Retrofret:

http://www.retrofret.com/products.as...D=6234&CartID=

What the main differences between the classified one and the one I just posted? I like the F holes and the look of the 1950's one on the classifieds - I don't know much about the years, but is 1918 Retrofret Gibson before truss rods?

Thoughts?

[Steve Ostrander]

To all this wisdom I can only add the one great truth I've known: Buy the best acoustic you can and add quality electronics rather than depending on the handful of AE instruments out there.

True story. And a good mic is better than any pick up you can add.

[chuck3]

Thanks for all the advice.

Chuck, that Gibson looks beautiful. I'm going to try this one out today I found listed at Retrofret:

http://www.retrofret.com/products.as...D=6234&CartID=

What the main differences between the classified one and the one I just posted? I like the F holes and the look of the 1950's one on the classifieds - I don't know much about the years, but is 1918 Retrofret Gibson before truss rods?

Thoughts?

That is a good question. You can see the truss rod cover on the 1950's one, not on the 1918 one. I'm sure Steve at Retrofret can tell you the answer. It would be great to own such an old one, but the wisdom of it being your regular gigging mando (which seems to be what you intend), I'm not so sure about.

[Capt. E]

I have owned and played both vintage A's and the 1930's ff hole versions and there is little difference in playability. Mandolins prior to about 1922 do not have truss rods. This can make some difference as necks on the old A's can have a bit too much relief and might benefit from a truss rod tweek (if they had one). I really like the 1934-on A-OO, A-1 and A-50 instruments. Great value for the money and with the ff holes, they have good volume and tone. Quite a few professionals have used these, including Bill Monroe. These were the first Gibson A body mandolins with ff holes and appeared when oval holes began to loose popularity.
All of the above sell for more or less the same price until you start going up the model line. You should be able to find a very nice example in the $1000 area. The priciest A body Gibsons are the Loar era snakeheads. Certainly worth looking for, but easily two to four times the price. The scale on all of these are also a factor with the neck joined at the 12th fret, not the 14th or 15th.

I like the A-40 you linked to best. $1500 is too much for the 1918 A. The A-50 has a maple back, sometimes with very nice flame. They have a bit brighter tone than the A-40

Here is something to look out for, if you take a look at the photos of this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1949-Gibson-...item3aa7a9a335 you will notice from the side view that the top seems to be sinking. Do not buy this one.

This one seems pretty nice except for the ss# carved into the back of the peg-head!!! http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-30s-...item33a09cad13

As you can probably tell, the search is not necessarily swift and easy. Take your time and you'll find the perfect mandolin. Look at the classifeds here on the cafe especially.

[9lbShellhamer]

Everyone has already explained that an A of the same price will most likely be the best bet tonally, but in that price I'd look at a Kentucky KM1050 from TMS which would be setup really well, or a J bovier F5 which wouldn't go over your budget even with a pickup.

I have a KM 950 from TMS which is really great and is super playable.

[itstooloudMike]

Since you are a guitar player (so am I), and play an ES-335, I would say that your primary objectives would be great playability and really good tone. You don't play a cheap guitar, and won't be satisfied with a mandolin that doesn't meet a similar level. The truth is that $1500 won't get you into a really good F-5 mandolin. I went through the same thing. And I doubt you would be satisfied for very long with a "high-end pacific rim F-5". I had an Eastman MD-815, which is a very good mandolin for the price range. But it didn't have the complexity of tone I wanted to hear, and as a guitar player I could not get used to the small frets and flat fretboard. My solution was to move into a used Weber Bitteroot-A. Webers are known for great playability. The necks are wonderful, the fretboard is radiused, and they use larger frets. All features that make things easier for a guitar player. But even better than the playability, is the tone. It's way more complex than any of the pac-rim mandos I've tried. You get a throaty, woody sound with resonance and overtones. As an experienced guitarist, you will hear the difference immediately. You only get this kind of tone from the premier builders (most in the US), and this level of mandolin usually starts at just over $2K. However, you can find used Weber A-style mandolins quite readily between $1K and 1.5K, which seems to be your price range.

Do yourself a favor, and stop looking at the scroll. The scroll isn't important to either tone or playability, and adds $1K to the price tag. Look for a used A-style from a premium builder. And as a fellow guitar player, I can tell you that Weber makes a professional level mandolin that is a joy to own, play, and hear.

[Capt. E]

I will agree about the Weber suggestion. I also own a Weber "Bighorn" which is a two-point with ff holes and is a killer mandolin. I have seen them sell used as low as $2200. The larger frets and the radius'd fretboard will probably be what you want. I do love my old 1920 Gibson A-2, but the Bighorn is a completely different animal. I believe Weber's two-point model is now called a "Bitterroot" and sells new for $3400. All in all, you might want to increase your budget a good bit.

[T.D.Nydn]

You said the km505 required a lot of "pressure"to play..you must play with a crazy amount of downward pressure,with the strap wrapped around the peghead to decapitate it like that....

[Eric F.]

Weber Gallatin F on reverb.com for $1499 here.

[J Mangio]

Classifieds....KM-1500....1K....(NFI)

[ianbarton]

Retrofret in Brooklyn may be easier for your to get to than MB if you are pressed for time. Although they are used/vintage items, it may be fun if you only have a couple hours. And at the very least, given you are a guitar player, you will be able to get lost in their guitar selection...which is huge.