tenor guitars strung as octave mandolin

[dan in va]

Wondering what experiences folks have had doing this. What models seem to work best, if any? Is there enough bass for that low G string with an O size?

[zoukboy]

You mean simply re-stringing for G²D³A³E⁴ tuning, not converting a tenor to an 8 string "octave mandolin"?

If so, it depends on the instrument but many of us here have done it with success. Tenor guitar in GDAE is coming to be called "Irish" tuning because it is also the predominant tuning for Irish tenor banjo, so it's a "thing." [Just as GDAD is the predominant tuning for Irish bouzouki - why do the Irish have to retune everything? :-) ]

I suggest you calculate the tension on your instrument with the string gauges that are on it and then come up with a set that will give you the same tensions in GDAE.

I use this online string tension calculator:

http://www.bangzero.org/stringtension/

[dan in va]

Thanks for your reply, Z. Yes, i do mean a 4 string tenor guitar tuned GDAE, an octave lower than mandolin. i haven't bought, as i'm unsure if a smaller O sized body, say a Martin O18T for example, would supply enough bass for that G string...that same note being on the low E string of a 6 string guitar.

Not interest in a tenor guitar in standard CGDA tuning, as the mandola covers that pretty well.

Your suggestion of checking the string tension is something i'll do, but i'm hoping to also hear from those who have played this animal. i'm wondering how it actually sounds, as this is not unusual. There may be some other factors, such as perhaps needing to move the saddle back with the heavier octave gauge strings. Or, it just might not sound all that great.

[bruce.b]

This is commonly done. I love tenor guitar tuned this way. If you're going to play fiddle tunes, Irish, Old Time, it's the way to go. A good tenor guitar handles the lower tuning just fine.

[dburtnett]

A Martin 0-18T is particularly well suited to GDAE IMHO.

[Seonachan]

A Martin 0-18T is particularly well suited to GDAE IMHO.

Seconded. Mine is a bass cannon - even more so than my Breedlove (which is purpose-built for GDAE, with an OM-size body and 24+" scale). I used to have a Blueridge (same size as a Martin 0), and while it was a great guitar for the price, I though the bass was a bit dead in GDAE. So while body size in an obvious consideration, build quality is going to matter just as much.

[CharlieKnuth]

If you are going to do this, make sure you purchase the heavier strings. Mine came with the usual tenor guitar strings for the CGDA tuning and I had to order different strings and restring it. I have a parlor sized tenor and think it works quite well, but you may think it needs more bass. I am happy with it.

[dan in va]

i really appreciate all the replies. It would be nice to have a narrow mandolin width neck, say 1 1/16", so maybe one will pop up with neck damage (left index finger strongly prefers narrow). Not looking for one to enter in a beauty contest. Every now and then something that's been abused comes around that's a good candidate for tasteful modification.

Very helpful and insightful info...thanks.

[Bill Foss]

I have a Tenor Tone tenor guitar made by Jamie Fletcher ( I don't know if it's O size) that is designed to be tuned to a variety of tunings, including Old Time fiddle tunings such as AEAE. GDAE woks fabulous on it. It has plenty of volume on the G string. It's a very rich warm sound up and down the neck. They are not inexpensive, but well worth it. Any other Tenor Tone owners out there?

http://fletcherinstruments.com

[fox]

Hi Bill, I have looked at those before, short scale & heavy strings for GDAE I seem to remember.
They look great!!!

[Seonachan]

I had a Fletcher at one point - you can't get a better tenor of that type (small-bodied and short-scale). Having said that, while it is built for GDAE tuning, its sound is modeled more on a tenor banjo than a 6-string guitar. The G string is strong but has a more punchy (banjo-y) sound as opposed to the deep bass sound you get on the low string of a guitar (which is what it sounds like the OP is after). Those size 5 bodies are quite a bit smaller than an 0 size (11" lower bout vs 13+"), and the physics do limit the boom to more of a bang. But as I said you can't find a better bang for that size. The new Kalas and even the nicer vintage Regals (which are a comparable size) won't give you the strong low end that the Fletcher has.

[dburtnett]

I lusted after the Fletcher, but couldn't justify the cost. Then.... lucked into a sweet little 30's era no-name that I believe is an SS Stewart, upon which the Fletcher was modeled. I keep it in CGDA, might try GDAE sometime soon for irish session melody playing.


Our friend Jake Wildwood did terrific work putting her back in service. He believes it's an Oscar Schmidt. Me, SS Stewart is my story... I'm stickin' to it.

[dan in va]

Seonachan, you said it very well. While i haven't had any experience with arch top tenor guitars, i'm thinking something like the O18T will be the ticket. Thanks very much for your insight.

Bill and dburtnett, thanks for the interesting reading and pic.

[dburtnett]

You won't be sorry Dan. I was playing my 0-18t in an old time session today, got there late and was sitting in the second circle. After first tune an excellent fiddler turned to see what was behind him. Said "sounds good... feels good too, I can feel in on my back..."

[mandobassman]

I lusted after the Fletcher, but couldn't justify the cost. Then.... lucked into a sweet little 30's era no-name that I believe is an SS Stewart, upon which the Fletcher was modeled. I keep it in CGDA, might try GDAE sometime soon for irish session melody playing.


Our friend Jake Wildwood did terrific work putting her back in service. He believes it's an Oscar Schmidt. Me, SS Stewart is my story... I'm stickin' to it.

Wow, What a find! That is a beautiful instrument.

[Ed Goist]

Wondering what experiences folks have had doing this. What models seem to work best, if any? Is there enough bass for that low G string with an O size?

Hi Dan. I've done this very successfully with four different tenor guitars (an old Gretsch Model 240 archtop, a Blueridge BR-40T [0-sized], a Harmony H1201TG [0-sized], and an Eastwood Warren Ellis electric). There is definitely enough bass.

I'd recommend the following:

• Scale length as close to 23" as you can get
• Set-up in GDAE tuning with gauges 42 W- 30 W - 20 W or p - 13 p
• The larger the body cavity the better the bass response

[fox]

String gauges often seem to be based on standard string sets that can be picked up at a store or ordered on line but, I find it pays to buy singles and experiment for yourself.

Start off with a basic idea of what others are using and then play around to see if you prefer something slightly different.

Personally I am not so keen on GDAE on shorter scale guitars like 20 or 21" because the base string tends to be so fat it is difficult to bend near the nut!

I like a pretty even pull across the strings, around the 20lb mark, it is just my own personal view that works for me.
For my Blueridge , I prefer a slightly heavier G to Ed (.45) but that is not to say Eds choice is not a good one.
On my archtop, 23" scale, I like the sound of a .50 G but I don't like the feel of it so I keep that guitar in C tuning.
I tried G tuning on my 20" scale archtop but I could not get .52 through the peg hole!

My most played tenor is in GDAE, it has a 23" scale & a cedar top, I like slightly lighter gauge E & A but the same .30 & .45 for the D & G.

[Seonachan]

Best of luck in your tenor search, Dan. My progression from Blueridge to Martin, with a bunch of others along the way, was also largely driven by wanting a good guitar-ish bass sound in GDAE tuning.

Let us all know when you get one, especially so that I can come to your house and play it when visiting my folks in C'ville

[J.C. Bryant]

I'm enjoying your discussion on the GDAE, octave. I am relatively new to the tenor guitar. However I have a couple of 0-18T Martins and thought I would convert one to the Octave tuning. If I use the (42 W- 30 W - 20 W or p - 13 p) suggested above, is that a particular set with a number, D'Addario, etc., or a custom set? Also, would I need to enlarge the nut to accommodate the heavier strings?

[Seonachan]

42-30-20-13 is the John Pearse tenor guitar string set.

[dan in va]

Thanks for your post, Ed. It's your custom to have something useful to say and willingness to be helpful...the kind of experience that only comes with a fair amount of instrument stewardship.

Seonachan and dburnett, i've dediced to go with a Martin for a long list of reasons, and i'm wondering if the O18T and Blueridge tenors are the same size. There is a Martin that's on hold, but i'll need to look for a decent hard case, which isn't an easy thing to find. Saga/Golden Gate lists one in their catalog, and i haven't been abel to figure out from online info if it's any good or will fit the Martin correctly. Any thoughts?

Fox, thanks for the string talk.

Something i've stumbled onto with strings, is the extra warmth, string life, and smoothness with the D'A Flat Top strings. While more expensive, they can sound great with some instruments, so i'll most likely be trying some of these singles.

JC, how do you like your Martins?

This tenor guitar forum is a nice little side table in the Cafe, no?

[J.C. Bryant]

I thought I had replied but it seems I did not. Sorry! thank you Seanachan for the string set name. Thank you Dan in VA for all the information. I actually do not have the Martins in hand as yet. I will get them either Tuesday or Wednesday. Depending on whether I keep them or not I am considering tuning one each way. But I really don't know.

I play with a mandolin for yeas but am relatively new to the TG. I love slower acoustic sounds from a guitar, mandolin and I hope the TG. Actually, for my own ears, I love the music of fiddle tunes played much slower than most times played. I just like the "music" in them and slower just sounds neat, to me. I admit. some of this may be rationalism for not being especially fast, but I just like the sound of the tunes played slower. But at my age I like a lot of things slower.

[Seonachan]

i've dediced to go with a Martin for a long list of reasons, and i'm wondering if the O18T and Blueridge tenors are the same size. There is a Martin that's on hold, but i'll need to look for a decent hard case, which isn't an easy thing to find. Saga/Golden Gate lists one in their catalog, and i haven't been abel to figure out from online info if it's any good or will fit the Martin correctly. Any thoughts?

The Blueridge was modeled on the 0-18T - I don't know if there's any variability in exact Martin proportions over the years but mine (a 1957) fits into the same cases the Blueridge used to fit into. Canadian 0-size case works great. I also have a Recording King (made by Guardian?) 0-size that fits an 0-18 6-string but not the 0-18T (upper bout doesn't fit). I don't have personal experience with the Golden Gate but the reviews say it fits the 0-18T perfectly.

[dan in va]

Well, this morning i made the pilgrimage to Richmond VA and played the O18T. i was surprised by the amazing tone -- very Martin guitar-like and and balanced. Also the neck is 1/16" narrower than the standard 1 1/4", and has a deep profile that suits the left hand. It followed me home and there's a HSC on order.

Thanks to all for the encouragement as i'll surely enjoy it immensely.

[Sweetpea44]

I have my Blueridge tuned to GDAE .... sounds great.