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Thread: Is "Pick-Click" on extended fingerboards bad form?

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    Troy Shellhamer 9lbShellhamer's Avatar
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    Default Is "Pick-Click" on extended fingerboards bad form?

    By pick-click, I'm referring to the pick hitting the extension...

    Is pick-click on non-scooped 29 fret mando's technically bad form? I don't have an extension on my MT2 but any time I play an F with 29 frets and a non-scooped extension I dig pretty badly.

    I'm looking at some F style mando's because I want to have a "stage ax" with a K&K pick up on board and it's a good excuse to allow MAS since I don't have an F. It drives me crazy to have a non-scooped florida but I'm wondering if my technique was better I wouldn't hit the fretboard/frets as much? (Hahaha full disclosure though in reality maybe I'll just save up for that Ellis or Kimble A I've always wanted...and toss the K&K on my Collings... )

    Going back and watching some "Pros" like Benson on YouTube, it seems he actually picks a lot below the extension IF he's playing a non-scooped, and if he's playing a scooped mando it's funny to see he utilizes spots up higher...pretty interesting! I prefer the tone up higher though...so that's not an option I'd like to be forced into.
    Last edited by 9lbShellhamer; May-16-2015 at 11:11am.
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    Default Re: Is "Pick-Click" on extended fingerboards bad form?

    Are all the scooped extensions because of bad technique? I've heard some nice recordings from experienced players clicking away. It's in the way.

    It's a classic look tho for sure.

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    Default Re: Is "Pick-Click" on extended fingerboards bad form?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Wilson View Post
    Are all the scooped extensions because of bad technique? I've heard some nice recordings from experienced players clicking away. It's in the way.

    It's a classic look tho for sure.
    I would rather click than to look "sick", that is the way scooped extensions look, "sick-sick-sick". Mr. Bill sure didn't have a problem with the extension.

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    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is "Pick-Click" on extended fingerboards bad form?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Wilson View Post
    It's in the way.

    It's a classic look tho for sure.
    Yes, the whole conflict in a nutshell.

    I never owned a mandolin with a fretboard extension, but I have done more cruel things to instruments than just scooping in order to make them work.
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    Middle-Aged Old-Timer Tobin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is "Pick-Click" on extended fingerboards bad form?

    Yep, pick click is annoying, hence the popularity of scooped Florida's. We could say that perfect technique would negate it, but even the professionals have this problem. So it's pointless beating yourself up for not being better than the pros on that.

    The Florida is a classic look, sure, but the abbreviated fretboards on modern mandolins look nice too, and solve the problem. If you want the Florida look with no click but not a naked extension, they can do faux frets on the scooped portion.

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    Registered User Bill Baldridge's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is "Pick-Click" on extended fingerboards bad form?

    Yes, pick-chick, is bad, possibly a mortal sin. Talk to your spiritual leader immediately. Take Ricky Skaggs with you.

    I went with the abbreviated fretboard.

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    Default Re: Is "Pick-Click" on extended fingerboards bad form?

    Or another way to think about it... pick click when reaching for mellower tonal color is an intrinsic part of the sound of a mandolin. Just like the quill click on a harpsichord or the percussive thunk of the hammers on a piano. You can hear pick click in some passages of Grisman's recordings. Is that a problem? I think some people would say yes, others no. If it bothers you, have an abbreviated fretboard n your instrument. If not, don't worry about it, and focus on expression and phrasing, which are much more powerful than adjacent sounds such as pick click or breathing.

    Violin players, by the way, have the same debate about breath noises. Most people think that breathing is an integral part of playing violin, and other people find it distracting if it is clearly audible in the recording.

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    Default Re: Is "Pick-Click" on extended fingerboards bad form?

    Well you could think of it something to use to help you improve your right hand technique to the point where you are playing evenly across the strings. A little bit of specific practice time set aside for slow and steady work will improve things quickly enough. I still do that in conjunction with clean fretting practice or cross-picking pattern learning and it does help to stop things getting clicky again. I notice it happens more in really complex or fast'n'furious playing and it's often things like needing to rework pick direction or not being economical with my movements that seems to be at the root of the problem.

    The root cause normally shows up in the slow clean practice exercises and I think it is mostly when I'm jumping across a string and the pick dives back down after doing too high an arch over the string in between. Sometimes it can get like a little birdy pecking at a seed tray. Worth working on, but I'd never scoop a fretboard extension or I'd feel a bit silly when it comes to playing the highest notes in some pieces.
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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is "Pick-Click" on extended fingerboards bad form?

    That's something i worked on immediately i began playing mandolin. I had so many other problems with picks,not least, how to keep one in my immediate vicinity for more that 5 minutes at a time,i worked on that problem along with the others. I was fortunate enough not to 'dig in' with the pick too hard anyway,if i did,i was in danger of losing it,so i managed to keep it pretty much off the extension. It's an unfortunate fact for many folk with fingerboard extensions,that what we term the 'sweet spot',is very often over the extension & we're in danger of hitting it if we dig in too deeply. It's something to work on. Having an extension is the 'classic' look,but many superb mandolins havea shortened fingerboard extension or even none - the Gibson Doyle Lawson model for one.I personally like the inventive ways with which luthiers terminate their f/boards.It's better that the same old,same old ......every time,(IMHO),'classic look' or not,
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    Registered Muser dang's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is "Pick-Click" on extended fingerboards bad form?

    Quote Originally Posted by 9lbShellhamer View Post
    full disclosure though in reality maybe I'll just save up for that Ellis or Kimble A I've always wanted...and toss the K&K on my Collings...
    Do this, do not fall to the sirens call of the scroll!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tobin View Post
    If you want the Florida look with no click but not a naked extension, they can do faux frets on the scooped portion.
    I think this really solves the issue, the "faux frets" look very convincing and you still have a natural look.

    Or get a saw and hack it off the Sam Bush way... but then the end without binding looks silly. When I custom ordered my Weber I wanted an abbreviated fingerboard (aka no florida) and they charged me extra to cut it off and bind the end.
    I should be pickin' rather than postin'

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    Default Re: Is "Pick-Click" on extended fingerboards bad form?

    Put your strings up where they should be and you won't have that problem.

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    Registered User Pete Martin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is "Pick-Click" on extended fingerboards bad form?

    It is why a number of us cut off the extensions.
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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is "Pick-Click" on extended fingerboards bad form?

    Regarding having 'Faux frets' - for me they're neither one thing or the other,& if they're on a scooped extension,what use are they anyway ?. I don't like them personally, & although my Lebeda has them,i wish it didn't. Having scooped the extension,you then pay to have faux frets fitted for no purpose at all. IMHO,they look exactly what they are - false & useless,purely my opinion,
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    Default Re: Is "Pick-Click" on extended fingerboards bad form?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Adrihan View Post
    Put your strings up where they should be and you won't have that problem.
    Do you mean that they should raise the action to get rid of pick-click on the extension? What a ridiculous suggestion! (If it was meant to be tongue in cheek, it's pretty funny. If it was meant in earnest, it's pretty sad.)

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    Default Re: Is "Pick-Click" on extended fingerboards bad form?

    Quote Originally Posted by dang View Post
    ...Or get a saw and hack it off the Sam Bush way... but then the end without binding looks silly. When I custom ordered my Weber I wanted an abbreviated fingerboard (aka no florida) and they charged me extra to cut it off and bind the end.
    Per John Hamlett in a thread on Sam Bush's Mandolin Keyboard Post #9
    Sam Bush's mandolin fingerboard

    Quote Originally Posted by sunburst View Post
    I've heard the story several times, the first time directly from Sam Bush, that he didn't like the extension because of pick click, but he worried about having the extender removed because he was afraid it would change the sound of the mandolin. Then one day he saw Roland White and saw that Roland had had his extender removed. He said he asked Roland, "Did it change the sound of the mandolin?" and Roland said, "Yeah, it got rid of that horrible clicking sound!". Sam said he had the extender cut off right away. He also said he carried the extender around in the case for a long time, but it eventually got lost.
    I've posted this before, and I'm still waiting for whoever has Sam's fingerboard extender as a souvenir to fess up!
    He also told me that he was thinking (at the time) of having the fingerboard replaced because it did not play in tune...
    I love that reply by Roland White per "...it got rid of that horrible clicking sound!..."
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    Loarcutus of MandoBorg DataNick's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is "Pick-Click" on extended fingerboards bad form?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tobin View Post
    ...If you want the Florida look with no click but not a naked extension, they can do faux frets on the scooped portion.
    +1 on the faux frets; I know some don't like them, but if I ordered/bought a new-ish mandolin, instead of a scoop with nothing. I think I might try the faux frets...and on scooping, you know Reischman had his Loar scooped, and I don't think that would stop most of us from having that mandolin if it was available to us!
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    Default Re: Is "Pick-Click" on extended fingerboards bad form?

    Nick - From what i've read,John Reischman had a new fingerboard fitted to his Loar & had it 'scooped'. I believe that he still has the original f/board should anybody who owns it in the future, wish to return the mandolin to it's original state,
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    Default Re: Is "Pick-Click" on extended fingerboards bad form?

    Quote Originally Posted by David L View Post
    Do you mean that they should raise the action to get rid of pick-click on the extension? What a ridiculous suggestion! (If it was meant to be tongue in cheek, it's pretty funny. If it was meant in earnest, it's pretty sad.)
    funny or not, i have found this true. it only takes lowering strings a bit, and my non click technique gets a touch of it. in my case i tried a very low set up, like fretless wonder approach. light touch, but less from the mando in terms of relative volume. normal height, no issue. very low, a bit, and this on my mando which is scooped!

    of course, one can also pick closer to the bridge for that bill m attack, away from the board entirely.

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    Registered User Givson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is "Pick-Click" on extended fingerboards bad form?

    If you wait a while, Gibson will patent the fingerboard extension (and possibly the "click")
    When 'good enough' is more than adequate.

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    Shredded Cheese Authority Emmett Marshall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is "Pick-Click" on extended fingerboards bad form?

    Quote Originally Posted by 9lbShellhamer View Post
    By pick-click, I'm referring to the pick hitting the extension...

    Is pick-click on non-scooped 29 fret mando's technically bad form?
    No it's not. And if anyone judges you THAT critically, the heck with them. It's your mando. You're the one who has to play it. If the pick click bugs you (as it did me), I'd say scoop it out and never look back.
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    Default Re: Is "Pick-Click" on extended fingerboards bad form?

    I can still get clicks on my scooped Florida. Total removal is my only option if it bothered me enough. It doesn't.

    They sure make the mandolin look great!
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    Default Re: Is "Pick-Click" on extended fingerboards bad form?

    Put a finger rest on, see what that does to your technique. I don't like to see scooped FBs, but it's not my mandolin. But I would hesitate to purchase a mandolin with a scoop. A lot of click can come just from the pick hitting the strings. A lot depends on your pick, grip, angle, depth, the shape/direction of your stroke.

    Conversely, Why doesn't anyone take off more than just the extension. You could take that scoop up further than a Sam Bush and get some real different tones in the Y position if you did.

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    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is "Pick-Click" on extended fingerboards bad form?

    Quote Originally Posted by stevedenver View Post
    of course, one can also pick closer to the bridge for that bill m attack, away from the board entirely.
    My Paris Swing was the first mandolin I owned with this problem. I played closer to the bridge for the longest time because I thought the instrument looked so cool. (The whole design is kind of a parody of a classic F4 envious of the iconic Selmer-Maccaferri Gypsy Jazz guitars.) But I did not like the tone down there.

    I had it scooped and faux frets put in, and that way the look is still cool, but I can play it over the sweet spot. Without the faux frets, the scooped extension would look really dumb IMO.

    I think (correct me you historians) the original intention was that folks would play south of the florida down closer to the bridge.
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    Shredded Cheese Authority Emmett Marshall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is "Pick-Click" on extended fingerboards bad form?

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    My Paris Swing was the first mandolin I owned with this problem.
    I've got 3 F-5 style mandolins, but only the KM1500 made me feel that I needed to scoop it. I can play my other 2 mandolins and I don't get much pick click. All the actions are low.
    Last edited by Emmett Marshall; May-21-2015 at 9:51am.
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    Registered User Drew Egerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is "Pick-Click" on extended fingerboards bad form?

    I have yet to play any mandolin with a full fingerboard that didn't bother me regardless of the price or quality of the brand. My second ever mandolin years ago was a Morgan Monroe (MMS-6 maybe?) with a full board. Hated it.

    My Flatbush V4 does not have any extension and I love that. At first I wasn't sure about the look, but it grew on me with playing and if I ever had a custom build done I would probably ask for the same. I think the style on it looks better than just being straight chopped off.
    http://www.flatbush.dk/Model%20V4.htm
    Of course the entire design is simplified a bit from the traditional look so it isn't for everyone.

    Scooped? Eh...maybe. I would definitely prefer scooped over full, but still not sure I like that look. Don't care much either way for or against faux frets.
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