How do I go about selling an instrument? (NOT an advert.!)

[belbein]

I'm going to be trying to clear out my unused instruments to fund a new purchase (I can't trade them) and I have a few questions from those of y'all who have done it or do it regularly. How do I go about it? Specifically--

1. Prices?
2. How do I arrange trial period?
3. How do I arrange payment?
4. Other than here, where?

Has anyone used (and had good luck/bad luck) with consignment? Many thanks in advance for any advice.

[Tavy]

> 1. Prices?

Check eBay and elsewhere to get an idea of typical prices.

> 2. How do I arrange trial period?

I always just say "If you're not happy send it back (buyer pays postage)". I don't set a formal trial period, and as none have ever come back, it hasn't mattered, but 2 days is normal, more than 7 unreasonable.

> 3. How do I arrange payment?

I've always used Paypal

> 4. Other than here, where?

eBay generally gets wider notice than here, but prices tend to be lower.

Good luck!

[Mark Wilson]

I would state the terms for trial return. I once told someone to 'bring it back if it don't work for you' and they showed up two months later.

[Eric F.]

Be aware that eBay/PayPal will hold your money for weeks after the buyer receives the instrument if they deem you do not have enough of a record as a seller.

Also be aware that eBay's shipping estimate is going to be off by a large amount. Shipping is always more expensive than people seem to want to believe.

Finally, a PayPal e-check does not incur the 3 percent transaction fee.

[Hadji36]

Great advice from Tavy and Mark. To add to Marks statement, lay out the terms of the deal in an email that both parties agree to, that way there are no misunderstandings. Also, make sure to communicate almost "ad nauseum" with the buyer. Remember that a buyer is going to be very excited to get their new instrument and wants to know when they are going to receive it. Utmost importance is the buyers satisfaction with what you are selling. That being said, be honest with the instruments strengths and weaknesses. No surprises. The buyer might find something that you overlooked (no one is perfect) and if they did make it right. Just follow the "Golden Rule" and you will have happy customers.

I also agree with Tavy when he said to use PayPal. That form of payment protects both the buyer and seller during a transaction.

Good luck on your sales and your new acquisition.

[nickster60]

Ebay is the fastest way to sell it just has a larger audience. But as stated if the buyer find a issue with your instrument everything is put on hold. Ebay then decides the outcome and there isn't much consistency, they have been all over the map.

You have the mandolin classifieds which seem to be pretty popular.

You also have Craigslist and depending on where you live this may or may not be a good idea. The advantage to CL is no fees and it is cash on the barrel head. It can take longer to sell but that depends on what you are selling. You do get the frequent crack pot who will want trade you a washer and dryer. Believe it or not I have been offered washers and dryers on numerous occasions. I am not sure my wife would be too happy if I traded her washer and dryer for a mandolin.

[k0k0peli]

I've not sold instruments but I've sold many lenses and cameras on eBay (and a travel trailer!) and on forum marketplaces. If the piece is at all collectible, the bidding can be astounding -- and if you don't like the bids up to some hours of auction's end, you can pull it and try again later. If your object is to make money, you can either set a firm price and hope a buyer agrees, or chance that auction bidders will astonish and delight you. (Someone actually paid US$150 for that in-pieces Steinheil lens in Exacta mount that cost me ten bucks?!?!? Wow!!) And you have a good idea of when the action will end. A forum marketplace listing may take some time to gain results -- but the tension is a bit lower than on eBay.

I can't comment on CraigsList, doesn't work up here in my remote mountain aerie. YMMV.

Pricing: For auctions, I always start at US$0.99 -- that gets the bottom-feeder's attention. Bidding drives the price up to actual market value. For a forum marketplace, check sales histories to see what similar items have sold for, and either set the price a little higher (it's a premium item!) or a little lower (it's a bargain!) depending on how bad you need the money.

The trick with any venue is TOTAL DISCLOSURE. If you reveal EVERY known or possible flaw in the item, the buyer has nothing to bitch about. When I sold that 27-foot 50-year-old travel trailer on eBay, I carefully photographed every dent, warp, rust-out, etc. The buyers knew exactly what they were getting, and were quite happy with it. Of course, they'd already intended to put US$20k into restoring their US$5k 'bargain' retro dream. We all walked away happy.

So, total disclosure. Hide nothing. Point out every scratch, defect, buzz and burr, finish flaw, sticky tuning machine, rough fret end, everything. I would even record a vid or MP3 of playing it so potential buyers get some idea of its tone. Some here might think that overkill, and I haven't really looked at marketplace offerings here (out of my price range!) but my approach has worked well for me. Out of hundreds of lens and camera sales I've had exactly three returns, and two of those were due to damage in shipping -- even a well-padded box can be stomped by FedEx or the Russian postal service.

Yes, communicate with buyers. Yes, lay out your exact terms for shipping, approval, returns, payment, whatever.

PayPal is safe -- and they take their cut. eBay is dynamic and active -- and they take their cut. I avoid shipping-cost surprises by packing the item before I list it, so I know precisely its weight and size, and can plug that into USPS postage calculators. BTW I find USPS *much* better than the commercial services, and studies show that UPS and DeFex er I mean FedEx shipments suffer more impact transients (they're drop-kicked more).

I was a lens trader on eBay and my profit margin has been 105% after fees. Not bad. (Buy batches of old lenses, keep the treasures, sell the rest.) I have no intention of being an instrument trader -- I buy these musical wonders because I love them and want to keep them. eBay can demand a gut-wrenching level of personal involvement if you're in it for the money. If I *were* to (tearfully) sell any of my instruments, I'd use the forum marketplace. I don't need the stress anymore.

Good luck!

[Bill Baldridge]

I like to sell through the Mandolin Cafe Classifieds because I have more confidence in potential buyers than Ebay. I am totally honest and offer many pictures. When I begin to deal with serious buyer I like to talk to them on the phone.

[Emmett Marshall]

Great advice from Tavy and Mark. To add to Marks statement, lay out the terms of the deal in an email that both parties agree to, that way there are no misunderstandings. Also, make sure to communicate almost "ad nauseum" with the buyer. Remember that a buyer is going to be very excited to get their new instrument and wants to know when they are going to receive it. Utmost importance is the buyers satisfaction with what you are selling. That being said, be honest with the instruments strengths and weaknesses. No surprises. The buyer might find something that you overlooked (no one is perfect) and if they did make it right. Just follow the "Golden Rule" and you will have happy customers. I also agree with Tavy when he said to use PayPal. That form of payment protects both the buyer and seller during a transaction. Good luck on your sales and your new acquisition.

I want to throw in my "two cents + shipping" because I recently purchased a mandolin from Hadji36, I can speak to the credibility of his advice on this topic. We had a flawless transaction. I never had to "wonder" what was going on each step of the way. He didn't mention this, but he also sent photos of the mandolin showing how it was packed for shipping, and even a photo of him at the post office shipping the package. This could be very useful in the event that an insurance claim is filed with the shipper. He provided tracking information - which I think is very important also. He followed up with me several times after I received the mandolin - asking if I was happy with the mandolin. I think this step is very important as well. It gives the seller documented proof that the customer was satisfied after the sale - should there be any issues at a later date.

I would consider giving the buyer an examination period that is longer than 48 hours. This has absolutely nothing to do with my purchase from Hadji36 at all, but my "general" advice to buyers would be, never say you are totally satisfied until the very end of the examination period unless you have really gone over every inch of the instrument first and have played it. You may still find something you missed just before the period is ended. For these reasons, I personally do not like the 48 hour examination period. I would rather see 3-5 days. A 48 hour inspection period is not normally going to be 48 hours. The clock starts ticking when? When UPS drops it off while you are at work? When it arrives at a Post Office on Saturday, but you cannot get there until Monday?

You won't see me doing much of anything on Craig's List. Craig's List scares me. People are showing up to meet and getting robbed, and even killed. Not this guy.

I would definitely advertise here, or even on other instrument websites. I think it lends more credibility to the advertisement. I also think more buyers will have a good knowledge of the instrument you are selling, ask better questions, waste less of your time, and perhaps even be willing to pay a bit more.

Thanks for the great mandolin Hadji36! Perfect!

[nickster60]

That is one of disadvantages of Ebay you don't really know who you are dealing with. I prefer to talk to someone on the phone if possible to get a feel for who I am dealing with. It doesn't matter much if you are selling a book or the like. With musical instuments there is much more to consider.

[houseworker]

PayPal works very well but take care.

Always ship tracked and signed. Always. Fully insured.

Only ship to the verified name and address of the buyer as provided to you by PayPal.

Never ship on an e-check until it shows as cleared - this can take up to a fortnight. Otherwise you risk finding out that the buyer didn't have any funds after you shipped and you're down an instrument.

Tracked and signed to the verified address is so important that I'll say it again!

[Steve VandeWater]

I for one love Craigslist. I've bought and sold several mandolins, cars and trucks, furniture, a boat, and all manner of things with no problems whatsoever. As long as you're smart about meeting in a safe place and know what you're looking at, it can be a great experience.

[Andy Fielding]

I agree, Mandolin Cafe's Classifieds are great, because you can look at a seller's (or buyer's) history in the forum—see how long they've been on and what kinds of messages they've posted, and get a good feeling for their trustworthiness. Of course you may already know them pretty well, too!

As far as trials go, I think they're especially important with something as personal as a musical instrument. No amount of online details, or even audio or video samples, can tell you how you'll feel when that instrument's in your hands and you're making music with it (or in my case, trying to, LOL). So I think offering at least several days' return privilege—with return shipping at the buyer's expense, that's reasonable—is a real confidence builder. It's also just considerate of your fellow musicians, who usually mean quite well but aren't psychic!

[Bill Clements]

Hands down the Cafe Classifieds is the safest/best venue for selling and buying fretted instruments.
Thanks, Scott.
I've even met some very nice folks who showed up at my door to buy items I've sold. I've accepted all sorts of payment methods, but I can tell you everyone I've dealt with here has been honest as the day is long.
One fella even offered to take me fishing out west if I was ever in his neck of the woods.
There is no right answer when it comes to a trial period. I think this is something you simply negotiate with the buyer, but an unlimited return period seems ludicrous.
Stop by reputable dealers like Elderly or our own classifieds to get a sense of pricing. Generally, new instruments lose 20% of their value soon after you buy them.
One suggestion about CL. Use an email address you dedicate just for this purpose. You'll unfortunately get email from spammers and nut jobs. Having said this, I've sold a lot of stuff there. Just use common sense.

[Petrus]

Each venue has its positive and negative points and you have to evaluate it based on your individual needs. I've had mixed luck with eBay, but there is no substitute that comes close to it in terms of market reach and convenience even if its policies heavily favor the buyer. Which is fine when you're a buyer!

BTW I am not a fan of returning an item of any kind just because it doesn't suit your fancy. If the item is functional and arrives as described, I think it's the buyer's problem if he decides it's just not his cup of tea. It has nothing to do with the dollar value involved. You generally can't return a car on that basis. If I get something and eventually decide it's not for me, I'll sell it down the line. I think returns should be limited to items that are substantially not as described or nonfunctional. Otherwise, it's subjecting the item (esp. a delicate thing like an instrument) to unnecessary risk with all that packing and shipping back and forth and is a hassle for the seller; not to mention that it's off the market for that entire "trial period" plus transit and repackaging time and effort.

[dang]

Sell on the MandolinCafe classifieds.
Then donate a little, this place ain't free.

(NFI, never met Scott, just like the site and try to help by donating when I use it)

[MysTiK PiKn]

It's my impression that CL is pretty popular in the States. In Canada, I use Kijiji, and it seems to be the most popular thing for free ads, and usually cash on the barrel, as is, you own it.

I would hesitate to get into shipping, return dates, and fancy conditions, legalities, etc. I might travel to show, but meet me halfway.

Basically, as a private seller selling my stuff - I don't consider myself to be a "business". It's a one time deal - end of story.

Having said that, I will create an ad with tons of detail, and I will do all I can to promote an "honest deal". But that's where it stops. Any thing else, is like too much overhead - and the price is the price for the item - there is no included overhead charge to deal with warranty, returns, etc etc all wonderful conditions. I simply won't expose myself to all those nasty possibilities - I mean really, are you kidding me.??? I'm selling a mando - period - it costs cash, you get mando. End of story.

I'm not pretending to be Mystiks Unlimited Mando Super Bargain Music Co.
Come and view it, play it for an hour - goodbye. It was a pleasure doing clean upfront business with you. If you want to play games, I'm out - which means you are out also. Or you can deal with a real business that charges tax, and does a business tax return, and has a biz card, and business expenses, etc etc etc - THAT is NOT what I am selling. It's one and done.

I like kijiji, I use an exclusive email for that. Ads have 10 pictures. Description is huge, and honest. Price is states as firm, negotiable, obo, etc. Contact for more info, or arrange a viewing. SIMPLE. I sell clean, and you buy clean. Any suggestion of dirty or nasty - I walk away.

[Byron Pope]

I consigned two different mandolins with Kevin Douglas and had a good experience both times.

http://www.mandomutt.com/

Both mandolins sold quickly and I felt that Kevin's fee was reasonable given the service he provided.

[Andy Fielding]

BTW I am not a fan of returning an item of any kind just because it doesn't suit your fancy. If the item is functional and arrives as described, I think it's the buyer's problem if he decides it's just not his cup of tea...

Every seller must make their own decision about this, of course. However, my philosophy is that musical instruments are highly personal things—and even if you've read lots of online details, seen and heard online demos, or even played the same model by the same company, there's no way you can know if any individual instrument will sound and feel right once it's actually in your hands.

So I always allow a reasonable approval period. I make it clear the buyer must return the instrument at their own expense, in the original packaging, and in the same condition in which I shipped it.

Yes, it may seem like extra trouble. But if I were the musician doing the buying, it'd be something I'd appreciate, and I'd feel more confident about making such a significant investment.

And for what it's worth, no one has ever taken me up on the return privilege. So I'd have to guess that there aren't that many people out there who buy things frivolously, intending to return them.

[Tavy]

And for what it's worth, no one has ever taken me up on the return privilege. So I'd have to guess that there aren't that many people out there who buy things frivolously, intending to return them.

+1, a good returns policy is more about giving folks confidence than anything else, plus if you're happy with an instrument why would you expect returns? On the other hand if you're selling trash, why would you ever want to accept returns?

[JeffD]

I have done the big three - eBay, Craig's List, and the classifieds here at the café. They all went well. I was most confident with the classifieds, but they all went well.

I would think from a sellers point of view, if you want the most knowledgeable and serious buyers, go with the classifieds. Much more risk of time wasters on CL or eBay, I would think. And I would think the cafe classifieds have a lower (though not zero) risk of scammers.

[Andy Fielding]

+1, a good returns policy is more about giving folks confidence than anything else, plus if you're happy with an instrument why would you expect returns? On the other hand if you're selling trash, why would you ever want to accept returns?

Right on, IMHO... We're musicians selling to musicians, that's where I like to start.