America's 'Most Wanted" Luthier Comes Out of Hiding

[Emmett Marshall]

Recently had my Kentucky KM 1500 setup by a luthier someone had recommended to me. This mandolin was driving me nuts with buzzing G strings, a seriously canted (maxed out bridge on the bass side) and my inability to properly diagnose and fix it myself.

This dude got right on the job and had it fixed in a few hours - and fixed right! Well, at the time, I wasn't allowed to mention his name on the Cafe because he said that he wanted to continue getting most of his work by "word of mouth." He never really explained "why," and I still don't know "why." However, I was talking with him on the phone yesterday and I asked again, "Can I please plug you on the Cafe?" He said "yes," so his name is Jerry Rosa and he resides in Missouri.

Here is the video he made when he set up my mandolin.

Here's a video of him setting up 1923 Lloyd Loar.

I find it a bit strange that he was making all these videos on youtube, yet didn't want to be mentioned on here. I'm glad he reconsidered. I think guys like this deserve recognition and referrals.

[almeriastrings]

I find it a bit strange that he was making all these videos on youtube, yet didn't want to be mentioned on here.

I think you'll find he's been mentioned a few times already.

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?110836

[Rockyjohnstone]

Enjoyed that. Thanks!

[Clinchriver]

Recently had my Kentucky KM 1500 setup by a luthier someone had recommended to me. This mandolin was driving me nuts with buzzing G strings, a seriously canted (maxed out bridge on the bass side) and my inability to properly diagnose and fix it myself.

This dude got right on the job and had it fixed in a few hours - and fixed right! Well, at the time, I wasn't allowed to mention his name on the Cafe because he said that he wanted to continue getting most of his work by "word of mouth." He never really explained "why," and I still don't know "why." However, I was talking with him on the phone yesterday and I asked again, "Can I please plug you on the Cafe?" He said "yes," so his name is Jerry Rosa and he resides in Missouri.

Here is the video he made when he set up my mandolin.

Here's a video of him setting up 1923 Lloyd Loar.

I find it a bit strange that he was making all these videos on youtube, yet didn't want to be mentioned on here. I'm glad he reconsidered. I think guys like this deserve recognition and referrals.

I never saw him polish the frets? Is this typical on a mandolin set-up?

[Jackgaryk]

Emmett..Glad you are finally gonna get to pick your new mandolin. That tailpiece is really good looking.

[Emmett Marshall]

I think you'll find he's been mentioned a few times already.

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?110836

I see that! I guess nobody can "truly" escape from the watchful eyes of....."El Cafe"?

Yikes! Just read that thread. Now maybe I understand why he wasn't eager to have his name mentioned here. Talk about ripping a guy apart! That thread is great example of why I didn't post on the cafe for two years.

[Pete Jenner]

America's 'Most Wanted"

Are you going to split the reward?

[Emmett Marshall]

Thanks Jack. I can't put it down now. When I play it, my friends just can't stop looking at it. Then I say, "Here. You wanna play it?" Then I have to try and get it back!

[Emmett Marshall]

Are you going to split the reward?

My reward is the personal, warm and fuzzy feeling I get when I am able to provide useful service and information to those who have done the same for me. I would be delighted to split that with you.

[Pete Jenner]

My reward is the personal, warm and fuzzy feeling I get when I am able to provide useful service and information to those who have done the same for me. I would be delighted to split that with you.

You already have.

[jim simpson]

I remember Rosa String Works was one of the few who offered mandolin kits.

[DWM]

I'm glad emmettw is happy and got what he considers a great set-up. But -- and I usually don't comment on these things and just let it ride -- I watched the video of the Lloyd Loar set-up and the one he did on a cheap Rogue. This guy is a hack. His work surface is dirty. He does not measure anything. He does not even mask off the fret board on a $100K+ instrument. He doesn't seem to understand the proper order of a set-up. I'm just amazed he would post this stuff on YouTube. Wow.

[Emmett Marshall]

Which is precisely why people with $100,000+ instruments repeatedly call upon him for Luthier work. I just cannot believe it myself. I'm mortified. If you only knew who some of his customers are....

[MysTiK PiKn]

All those niceties. I watched Threet do things to my guitar that caused me to question her. It was indicated it was very necessary. I had an uncle who was a master cabinet maker. He just did what was required. In both cases, it's just pure experience. The art, the care, the method are actually well known. And so is the stuff that might matter. It's not ignored; there's just an experience override. Me working on my own mando, and on my guitar, the critics would go crazy. I was more interested in learning, and getting what I wanted. When the lights came on and the method was revealed, it got done right; plus, I had a secondary plan. I would have failed the video test also. But only I knew what I wanted, and I could feel it happening. So don't let me work on yours. I had an auto mechanic that had a sign in his shop -if you watch, the cost goes up 50%. For me it's about awareness and being conscious of the fact that everything matters - and some things don't. And then there's sculpture. good luck taping that off. And you can't tell when someone is talking to a rock. Set your own standards. Make your own video. Imposing limitation based on arbitrary personal standards - well, it's a popular sport obviously. There are other ways. Yours is likely better.

[pianoman89]

His work surface is dirty. He does not measure anything.

If thats standard you use as a measure of a great luthier, I doubt many of us measure up. His work surface is one of the cleanest I've seen. And measurements are a guide for folks who don't know what they are doing, or for folks who just prefer to measure their work. I personally have never met a luthier who uses a rule when performing a set up, unless a new nut has to be cut. What exactly did you want him to measure?...
If he were working on a 40+ million dollar Strad, I would expect the sterile operating room and rubber gloves, but 100k violins are normal for most high end violin shops. I'm not sure the 100k instruments require the handling of a Strad...And mandolins are much more robust than fiddles..

[mirwa]

If thats standard you use as a measure of a great luthier, I doubt many of us measure up. His work surface is one of the cleanest I've seen. And measurements are a guide for folks who don't know what they are doing, or for folks who just prefer to measure their work. I personally have never met a luthier who uses a rule when performing a set up, unless a new nut has to be cut. What exactly did you want him to measure?...

Wow, I usually just comment and not debate someone, but really.

If you are saying you run a commercial luthier repair business and you never measure anything, then sorry Ill call your bluff and say thats bull dust.

A commercial repair shop will always measure everything, it allows us to set an instrument up to an exact specification and then be able to repeat that specification every single time.

If a customer wants the action lower, then you can lower it from a known amount, and if necessary return it inbetween that amount if required, not measuring means you are guessing.

An example of some things to measure, this is just with the strings in relation to the body - nut height on each string, string heights at the 12th, 14th or 17th dependant on the instrument, relief at the 7th,

Steve (a luthier who measures everything) and I certainly know what I am doing, I am endorsed by Taylor, Martin, Gibson, Yamaha, Warwick, Tanglewood, Epiphone, Music Man, Cort, to name but a very few...

[Emmett Marshall]

I think there are assumptions being made. He didn't video his work on the nut. He used a pick, of known thickness, just to show his audience that the action was high. MY thought on this is "why" get a out a ruler when you're performing a task that you've done a zillion times, and can practically do it blindfolded anyway? Measuring everything is not necessary for everything. It could even be a waste of time.

In another life, I was a jet aircraft mechanic. Our aircraft sat on floors that were painted white. I had used every kind of measuring device you can possibly imagine. After removing, disassembling, reassembling, and reinstalling thousands of the exact same thing every year, my hands and arms were almost as accurate as the best torque wrenches money can buy. I cannot see any logical reason whatsoever to deride someone who could setup a mandolin by sight and "feel." It is a testament to his experience level. One person might need rulers and gauges for everything, another may not. It is the outcome that matters, and I've got a mandolin right here that sounds it's best, feels really great to play, and no longer buzzes. That is success.

[MysTiK PiKn]

I'm a newbee, and my next plan on my own mando is to rip the frets and plane the board. There's nothing to measure really cos the whole thing is a roller coaster track. After that I get to hakk my frets - again - cos the first round was like practice for the real thing. I tried measuring; but it made more sense to eyeball it - which is something else that people don't recommend. I know what I'm doing; it's just that I've never done it before.
I'm wondering what measurement specs constitute a "hot" setup. That's what I want; but I'll settle for what I create. And it's all my fault. I can always whine for help here - people are nice. Maybe some will take pity on my incompetence. Or, I'll repair my damage. I like the freedom approach. I wish I had a workshop with all those nice tools; but I just take my time, and make it happen somehow. I think I might need a straight edge indicator; but the plane should be straight enough. It really can't get any worse than it is. The frets are just hiding the real problem w the fb. I think I'm getting good with eyeballing the "silver highway" - you can see "dark spots" which mean you're not done. I don't know how to measure them however - I just want them gone. Then, it's perfect. But I have lots to learn anyway. I enjoy the process - if the event matches that, it's great. But I'm not doing a lot of them. After the Loar, there's the Gibson, and the junk harmony, and this really olde thing I just bought - no idea what to do with that. I just like it cos it's olde. Likely older than me.

[Emmett Marshall]

Hey MysTik. I'm guessing the fret leveling didn't help with the "hump"? Speaking of humps, Jerry spotted the hump on my Kentucky immediately. You were right all along! Dude, you've got the patience of a saint. I'm finding out that I don't - which is why Arnold now has a pediatrician. The Silverangel should get here next week sometime. You want to name that one also?

[Emmett Marshall]

I never saw him polish the frets? Is this typical on a mandolin set-up?

I honesty don't know if it is "typical" or not? The frets don't feel rough, and the mando does sound really nice, and that is pretty much all I know.

[pianoman89]

Wow, I usually just comment and not debate someone, but really.

If you are saying you run a commercial luthier repair business and you never measure anything, then sorry Ill call your bluff and say thats bull dust.

A commercial repair shop will always measure everything, it allows us to set an instrument up to an exact specification and then be able to repeat that specification every single time.

If a customer wants the action lower, then you can lower it from a known amount, and if necessary return it inbetween that amount if required, not measuring means you are guessing.

An example of some things to measure, this is just with the strings in relation to the body - nut height on each string, string heights at the 12th, 14th or 17th dependant on the instrument, relief at the 7th,

Steve (a luthier who measures everything) and I certainly know what I am doing, I am endorsed by Taylor, Martin, Gibson, Yamaha, Warwick, Tanglewood, Epiphone, Music Man, Cort, to name but a very few...

Maybe you got the wrong tone out of my remark. I mentioned that some folks like to measure everything, and thats fine. If that's what works for you, that's how you should do it. What I was really getting at is don't call a guy a hack for not measuring.

I didnt claim to run a business. I do know folks who do who don't use specs. They set up to what looks/ feels/ plays correctly. I don't think anyone can make an argument that a mandolin set up to specs that plays right is any better than one set by instinct, and plays right.

I can understand why measurements would work great for you because of repetition.
But there are those who set up "to the customer", and thats OK too.

I think this topic should deserve a thread of its own, and sorry emmettw for taking the thread off topic.

[Emmett Marshall]

I think this topic should deserve a thread of its own, and sorry emmettw for taking the thread off topic.

No need to apologize at all. I think it's an interesting discussion for sure. In fact, I'm seeing this whole, measuring vs. instinct, topic pretty much from the same angle (pun intended) that you are. I am sure that some work environments and tasks will dictate that measurements are required, but it just doesn't apply to ALL types of mandolin work - in my under educated opinion. I also think that calling a guy who builds nice mandolins, has taught hundreds of students how to play, does great luthier work and restorations, and stays with it all, quite successfully, for 30 years a "hack," is pretty much "over the top." Zoooooooooooooooooooom.

[MysTiK PiKn]

Hey MysTik. I'm guessing the fret leveling didn't help with the "hump"? Speaking of humps, Jerry spotted the hump on my Kentucky immediately. You were right all along! Dude, you've got the patience of a saint. I'm finding out that I don't - which is why Arnold now has a pediatrician. The Silverangel should get here next week sometime. You want to name that one also?

Hi emmett - the hump is in the fb. I filed frets level to hide that effect. (big improvement). The fb is on the agenda (sometime). It's "ok" for now. Much more playable.
Thanks, I like to be right sometimes; but sometimes I am out to lunch, which is also fun, kinda; or even funny.
Is the angel a boy angel or a girl angel.? There are other characteristics, which could be deemed more active or more passive. Playing with angels is a good time. I have described mandolins as sounding like "all the angels sing", a few times. Perhaps when you are more familiar with the SilverAngel, we can discuss this further. Other noticeable characteristics will be helpful. And if you get messages, that would be something else. We can wait and see. Perhaps you have something in mind also. I'm not sure I want to always be the name guy, after the last fiasco; but I will help where I can.
Cheers.

[mirwa]

Maybe you got the wrong tone out of my remark. I mentioned that some folks like to measure everything, and thats fine. If that's what works for you, that's how you should do it.

All good, I took offence from your statement that people who measure are ones that do not know what they are doing. That is so far from the truth it deserved me making a personal comment.

Imeasurements are a guide for folks who don't know what they are doing, or for folks who just prefer to measure their work.

We repair all guitars to our spec's and measurements, we also adjust those to the player when they test play there instrument at time of pickup if required, we update a database with that customers preferred playing heights, every instrument of their's we ever see again, or that instrument ever again, is set up to a perfect measurement within 0.005", we do not wing it.

[Emmett Marshall]

Hi emmett - ....I am out to lunch..
Cheers.

I'll be keeping that in mind.