Zoom A3 preamp & Fishman Aura Spectrum

[McIrish]

I've been playing out many shows with 7 different acoustic instruments. Mandolin, Mandola, Bouzouki, Banjo, Dobro and a couple 000 guitars. Most have K&K pickups which sound pretty good on their own. I'm always looking for a way to get a slightly better tone. Currently, I've been using a K&K preamp feeding multiple EQ pedals into a switch to select the right EQ for each instrument and then to a tuner. I also have a Behringer ADI21 that I've used in place of the K&K preamp on occasion. My pedal board is way too much mess. I want to simplify. So, this last weekend I bought both a Zoom A3 and a Fishman Aura.

The Aura is pretty impressive and can drastically change the sound of your instrument. that can be a good thing if the instrument sounds pretty bad plugged in. In my case, I was able to get a very nice sound from it when I used one of my guitars. Unfortunately, feedback became an issue pretty early on. I think the Aura would do better with a UTS type pickup. The biggest drawback for me was that I would still need all the EQ pedals to tailor the sound of each instrument. The Aura is not programmable so I would either need 6 of these ($$$$$$) or I'd still need my current setup in addition to it. This is where the Zoom A3 comes in.

At first, the A3 didn't do too much for me and the user interface is anything but intuitive. I had a little trouble figuring out their menus and for a while I didn't have the modeling working but didn't realize it. Eventually, I did find it possible to setup modeling and a couple EQs for each instrument and save that as presets. Basically, you get the initial input selection filter that can be set for magnetic or piezo pickups. That helps a little with the quack (though the K&K isn't so bad). Next, you get three effects. the first effect is always dedicated to the modeler (body resonance). The other two effects can be any of their dozens of effects. I use the six band graphic EQ and the parametric if needed. I've also used their microphone simulator, which helped on a few sources a little. The pedal also acts as a tuner, feedback suppressor and has a dedicated boost switch. Quite a lot of functions packed into a small box. If this works out, I could go from 6 pedals to one.

There are a few drawbacks to it. The biggest being that you can setup preset that you can scroll through but you can only go forward and not backwards. That makes adding an effect for just part of a song an impossibility in my setup. I'm using it as six presets; one for each instrument type. I liked it better than my usual setup when I worked on it the other day. The big test will be rehearsal tonight with the full band.

I'll keep you posted on how it goes.

PS: I did contact Zoom to see if any of their larger pedals that had more functions could handle all the same things that the A3 does but I have not heard back. I think they have some modeling in them but not on the level that the A3 does. maybe I will add a G3 guitar FX pedal to the chain if I need even more flexibility.

[Mandobart]

So are you using the Zoom and the Aura together? Or now the Zoom instead of the Aura? I'm also a multi instrumentalist just now getting more serious at sound reinforcement for live solo gigs. I also opt for less gear - less stuff to haul, setup, and most importantly less potential failure points.

[McIrish]

Sorry I wasn't clear. I bought both to try but will only use one. The Aura drastically changes the sound. I think it would be a great option if you had just one instrument to make sound great. The A3 is a bit more subtle. I did use in in a 4 hour rehearsal last night. I think it will work out after I do a little more tweaking. I had got so used to the slight "edge" my instruments had that it through me off a bit with how the A3 smoothed things out. Maybe there is some slight compression due to the processing. I just need to tweak it a little more and match volume levels a bit more and I should be set... at least until I try something else. :-)
I hope this thread is of help to other multi-instrumentalist who have to have pretty high stage level.

I'll be taking the Aura pedal back and keeping the A3.

[almeriastrings]

The Aura pedal is superb at taming 'Quack' on undersaddle pickups. It warms things up a lot and you can get some good sounds from it. Never used it with mandolin, but on guitars - it does very well. There is another option re multiple EQ's...

http://www.sourceaudio.net/products/...ammable_eq.php

Neat little box. Easy to use. You can combine with the Aura system.

[McIrish]

I saw that EQ pedal and was very interested in it but unfortunately, it can only store 4 presets. I needed six. You're right about the Aura. It does a great job with the under saddle type pickup quack. The K&K pickups don't have much of that so for me, the Aura wasn't a good fit. I think I will still some more experiments before I take it back though. A 30 day return policy is a good thing!

[Jim B]

I use an older Aura with my Martin - works great on guitar not mandolin:
http://www.fishman.com/products/view...r-discontinued

For the my Kelley mandolin I use a Beringer tub pre-amp DI box - great sound:
http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/MIC100.aspx

[foldedpath]

When topics like this come up, I usually mention one other pedal option, so here goes: the TC Electronic G-Natural pedal.

I used one of these for a while, but later sold it. I was looking for something that could store several EQ presets and switch quickly between them for multi-instrument gigs. It only has 3 EQ bands, but they're parametric, and it includes a bunch of other features like high-quality reverbs, delays, boost switch, and tuner. You can program all the effects for different instruments along with EQ, and call them up as patches with a single press of the footswitch. Although, you do have to deal with the single input (see below). Apparently it's been discontinued, but they show up every now and then used, and there might be some NOS left at dealers.

The reason I sold it, was because eventually I had clip-on mini condenser mics on all the instruments I wanted to use, and with the phantom power requirement, there just wasn't a good way to switch them to the single input on the pedal. It would be easier to switch inputs with one or more A/B pedals if you're using pickups.

[Don Grieser]

McIrish, please update us on your experience with the Zoom. I think that might be good for one of the bands I play in.

[McIrish]

Here's my update. I used it in a rehearsal and noticed I needed a little more tweaking of both EQ and volume of some instruments. I did the tweaks and then used it on Saturday night for a 3 hour gig. It was sort of a mixed bag. I still found I need more tweaking. It's not setup in a way to make quick changes between songs but once I had to do it anyway. When I did the setup after the rehearsal and tweaked the sounds, I was in a studio on very good speakers. It was a whole different story at the show. The mandolin sounded good but a little loud, the mandola was also a touch loud and needs some EQ to fix a hollowness I'm hearing. The guitar, dobro and banjo all sounded fine but needed a bit more volume. My Petersen bouzouki never sounded better than it did the other night.

It's a good pedal to have but for me, it's going to take more work till I get it right.

[TDWrks]

A3: What modeling setting is working best with the mandolin? I gig regularly with mandolin, guitar and dobro and have yet to find a fast reliable way to switch during sets.

I see there's a reso setting-- anybody here used it? My fear is that being a guitar centric box, it may try to emulate a national or tri-cone and be better suited to blues bottleneck than my playing.

Even with my duo act a mic (preferred) won't cut it. BTW, my partner uses the aura spectrum and I think it sounds good on his guitars, tho only if I get him to lay off the chorus and reverb Some folks just like processed things, I just want my instruments to sound like my instruments-- go figure.

[McIrish]

For the A3, the main input model is set for my main guitar and I leave that knob alone. Mine is set for an 000-28 as my main guitar is a Collings 0002H. I'll have to have a look at which model I'm using in the configuration of each preset. The A3 doesn't do modeling in a heavy handed way. I'm sure there are a dozen different models that would have worked equally as well as the one I chose. I believe for mandolin I chose the "Dove" model. It doesn't make my mandolin sound like that guitar in any way. The modeling just helps remove the harshness of the pickups and give a slightly fuller sound. I just played and kept cycling through their models till I felt it sounded best. So many of them are nearly identical. The real heart of what the pedal is used for is the EQ. That's the absolute most important feature to me. Most of my instruments required both the 6 band graphic and the parametric EQ as well. In my case, for mandolin, I was rolling off -6dB of low end (60Hz) to get rid of the thump. The main tone shaping was in the midrange. At 3KHZ-6KZ, I was cutting pretty heavily for my mandolin. I think I had a boost around 400HZ as well and a slight dip on the very high frequencies. I'm positive the setting I use will be of no value to anyone else as they are instrument and pickup specific settings. I have K&K pickups in all my instruments (other than banjo and dobro) but they all require radically different EQ to sound their best. My mandolin pickups sound a bit shrill but the guitar pickups sound a little to big. So I EQ them all to sound their best. I know for most people it might be overkill and it did take quite a long time to come up with settings that worked. For me, this worked out well. If I could find another pedal with as many features plus more processing power (for more FX) I'd get it, but I have not found one that worked as well.

On a side note, I find the tuner of the A3 to be a bit sketchy. It's not too accurate and has a hard time locking on an a string. I end up using my Korg pedal tuner instead.

[TDWrks]

Thanks McIrish for the detailed description! I think I'd want this primarily for the eq and ability to save presets and cut down on knob fiddling between instrument changes. Plus the boost and feedback control would be added benefits.

Couple other questions about this unit: guitar has onboard preamp but mandolin and dobro are raw piezos -- I've always heard the input impedence should be as high as 10Mohm otherwise additional buffering may be necessary. I read somewhere that the a3 is 1Mohm impedance. Does this do your KK sbt pickups justices? Do u use additional buffer or preamp?

And also: ever use mic input as well to blend signal?

Thanks again, appreciated!

[almeriastrings]

Couple other questions about this unit: guitar has onboard preamp but mandolin and dobro are raw piezos -- I've always heard the input impedence should be as high as 10Mohm otherwise additional buffering may be necessary. I read somewhere that the a3 is 1Mohm impedance. Does this do your KK sbt pickups justices? Do u use additional buffer or preamp?

Just to address this specific technical point.

It is not the case that 10M is optimum for all transducers in all situations. It might be optimal for some, in some situations. Quite a few transducers actually perform better in to 1-2M Ohm loads than they do into 10M - the most obvious way that you actually hear this in in LF response. However, a really extended ultra-flat frequency response in the LF area is not necessarily a good thing in all cases... it merely brings physical handling noise and other sub-sonic interference to the fore. Which you are then going to have to try to cut using high-pass filters. K&K (and JJB) type soundboard transducers on mandolins, fiddles, guitars, dobros, etc., are typically fine into 1M inputs. Indeed, that is the impedance those manufacturers specifically suggest. Why? Because by applying some slight loading to the transducer, that helps to clean up the signal by damping very low frequencies at source. You really do not want say, 30-40 Hz in there 'muddying up', and more importantly, potentially clipping your signal. So in brief - 1M is fine for these applications. No additional buffer necessary.

With string bass, where you may want a more extended LF response (to handle not just fundamentals but LF harmonics), a 5M or even 10M input impedance might be more suitable. Maybe. You have to experiment as there are many variables.

The object is to have an input impedance that produces an optimal roll-off for the frequencies that matter. So you do not want too much extraneous LF in there... "too much bass and too much 'thump'".

This is not just a question of hearing too much bass... that bass is generating LARGE VOLTAGE SWINGS and this can overload the input stages of preamps or DI's, causing a harsh and unpleasant tone and also creates more work for your EQ...that may not be up to the job. So it is not just a matter of the higher the input impedance the better - there is (much) more to it than that.

[Barry Canada]

Could the Boss or Mxr pedal be used to adjust and select the frequencies?

[ballynally]

Go back to the Zoom A2. All the extra options are available. The limiter is super useful. The A3 was supposed to be an upgrade (i thought) but they went the Aura way. Pity, 'cause the A2 is very good.Just Google it vs A3. You'll see what comes up..

[ballynally]

. The real heart of what the pedal is used for is the EQ. That's the absolute most important feature to me. Most of my instruments required both the 6 band graphic and the parametric EQ as well. I have K&K pickups in all my instruments (other than banjo and dobro) but they all require radically different EQ to sound their best. My mandolin pickups sound a bit shrill but the guitar pickups sound a little to big. So I EQ them all to sound their best. I know for most people it might be overkill and it did take quite a long time to come up with settings that worked. For me, this worked out well. If I could find another pedal with as many features plus more processing power (for more FX) I'd get it, but I have not found one that worked as well.

On a side note, I find the tuner of the A3 to be a bit sketchy. It's not too accurate and has a hard time locking on an a string. I end up using my Korg pedal tuner instead.

Again, the A2 is your answer. More EQ, dedicated footpedals, no pre slots. And the Limiter workd really well..

[TDWrks]

Thanks for the info almeria! Ur description makes it sound as if it's simply a function of which lower frequencies get rolled off-- and I'm not doubting ur knowledge on this. I'm speaking from my experience with the ust in my mandolin which not only lacks bass with my 3.3 Mohm input impedance pre but also sounds "brittle" and thin for lack of better description. More warm and natural with 10M buffer tho I do roll off bass afterwards don't have a KK but a homemade dual ust in another mandolin that sounds fine thru the 3.3 M pre. When I had initially read the description of the A3 I figured that the mag vs piezo selector also changed the buffer config-- that's why I was curious after reading a constant 1M impedance.

BTW I always use a mic (Akg c1000 or beta 57, depending on stage vol) and blend with pickups on my instruments -- just like mic'ed sound! So I would probably use both inputs on A3-- looking for advise here and others' experience. Of course one drawback is not being able to cut mic signal independently out of monitors if feedback is issue on loud stage.

[almeriastrings]

Thanks for the info almeria! Ur description makes it sound as if it's simply a function of which lower frequencies get rolled off-- and I'm not doubting ur knowledge on this. I'm speaking from my experience with the ust in my mandolin which not only lacks bass with my 3.3 Mohm input impedance pre but also sounds "brittle" and thin for lack of better description. More warm and natural with 10M buffer tho I do roll off bass afterwards don't have a KK but a homemade dual ust in another mandolin that sounds fine thru the 3.3 M pre.

At 3M+ on the input, if a mando sounds thin and brittle, it has to be something other than input impedance at the root of the problem. I would be looking at the position of the transducer or its physical coupling to the instrument in the first instance. Possibly even a faulty piezo element. It is theoretically impossible for it to be impedance given the frequencies involved. You may get some compensation effect by raising the impedance to 10M, but 3.3M should be more than adequate - by a very long way - for any mandolin. I normally use either a Headway EDB2 on the 1M setting or an Orchid active DI (fixed 1M) with mandolin/Violin piezo pickups, and normally only resort to 5 and 10M for certain guitars and string bass. You should get a very full, rich sound from both mandolin and violin from a good quality 1M input. Sometimes it is not impedance as such that causes bad sound.. but lack of headroom. Some piezo elements put out quite significant levels, and these can push some input stages too far. So ensuring you have a very clean, high headroom first stage is as critical as getting the the impedance in the correct range. The Orchid DI's (and Radial PZ-DI along with Countryman 85's) all have massive headroom, and this is a big part of why they sound so clean and smooth.

[TDWrks]

Ok, I think I'll have to do some experimentation to find out what's going on here!

I put a switch in my pre to mod from 1 to 3.3 to 10m ohm impedance so it's pretty easy to hear to difference-- tho the issue is only with this one p/u. I think ur right that there's something else at play here.

Thanks for the suggestions and info.

Peace,