New Herb Taylor tenor guitar

[zoukboy]

Haven't had a chance to shoot a full set of photos but here are two that should peak some interest here...

[mrmando]

Well, be sure to tell us your tuning and explain how the extension works.

[bruce.b]

Wow! I can't wait to hear more about this one.

[Londy]

Very odd indeed. What is the advantage of the headstock design?

[fox]

I am interested.......

[Niall Anderson]

Happy n+1, Roger! Look forward to seeing more photos and perhaps a video?

How are you finding the pinpoint capos so far? How's the intonation on the bass course?

[Baron Collins-Hill]

I have had dreams of something like this! Can't wait to hear/see more!

Thank
Baron

[FatBear]

That's quite a peg head. Longer bass strings - one looks like aircraft cable - smaller string in the middle of the basses, guides and little pulleys at the top, storage holes for the little capo knobs. The tuner for that big string almost looks like an anchor windlass. How in the world is it tuned? And what does the rest of it look like?

That Herb Taylor sure is an imaginative and innovative guy.

[Marty Jacobson]

Excellent. Herb is a clever guy and this is very well executed, a nice way to do this which doesn't require the stair-step headstock arrangement sometimes seen on Nordic-style instruments.

[MdJ]

Haven't had a chance to shoot a full set of photos but here are two that should peak some interest here...

That Herb is a MASTERMIND!
Just guessing... But does this deal the problem of excessivly heavy string gauges in a 5 ths tuned 5 course instrument (by lenghtening the scale of the bass course) ? But then the bass string pair appears to be partially re-entrant... So that can't be right ... Can it?

Thanks for posting

MdJ

[zoukboy]

This is essentially a five string tenor guitar with extended bass range and the lowest string doubled at the octave. I borrowed the idea of extended basses from the Nordic luthiers who've pioneered the concept on the låtmandola. Herb Taylor masterfully turned my design ideas into a real functioning instrument.

Here's how it works:
1. start with a 4 string tenor tuned G2D3A3E4 on a 22.75" scale length.
2. extend the G2 by three frets so that it is now an E2 (on a 27" scale).
3. add a C2 string and extend that by three frets down to A1 (yes, that is the same as the A string on a bass guitar).
4. use an oversize classical guitar bass string (.062" Hannabach) for the A1.
5. double that A1 at the octave A2 with a phosphor bronze .034"***
6. Use pinpoint capos to stop bass strings as needed to change tunings.

I will post photos soon.

***(the idea of using a heavy classical guitar bass string couple with a phosphor bronze octave string comes from Roger Tallroth, guitarist with the Swedish group Väsen, who does that on his 12 string guitars. Swedish låtmandola makers use it for extending the range of their instruments below what is normal for fifths-tuned fretted instruments.)

[zoukboy]

[MdJ]

What an interesting innovative and instrument ! But how in the wide wide world of sports is that tailpiece engineered?

All the best

MdJ

[zoukboy]

The neck runs through the body to the tail and the tailpiece is secured to the neckstick on a brass post through a hole in the top. The only tension on the lightly braced top is the small amount that is diverted through the floating bridge.

The neck-through the body is something that I had been after Herb to do for quite a while and he first tried it on a bouzouki prototype last year: http://www.herbtaylor.com/instruments/bouzouki/i186/

The rationale behind the through-neck is to let the neck take almost all the tension of the strings so that the top can be braced very, very lightly -- it essentially makes the top a resonating surface rather than a structural component.

I have been interested in how loud and full sounding many non-Western instruments are, those with flat tops, low bridges, and almost no break angle of the strings over the bridge, and this led me to ask Herb for several design features over the past 5 years or so. One was the zero down pressure bridge on my main bouzouki:

http://www.herbtaylor.com/instruments/bouzouki/i140/

The other was the neck-through bouzouki prototype, and the latest is this tenor guitar.

[MdJ]

Very very cool Roger .... A few years back I played several of Herbs' tenor guitars in Astoria at TGG4 and the one i liked best had a 'zero'd-out' bridge and the ultra thin top....tho it sported a standard tailpiece. .... After Herb explained it to me i was even more impressed - with the instrument and especially with how he had succeeded in redefining the problem of transferring sound... Its obvious he has pushed the idea much further here. Congrats again on a really bitchen instrument.

All the best

MdJ

PS - Just checked Herbs website- the instrument i played in Astoria is #183 - demonstrated on the Herb Taylor website by .......Mr. Roger Landes....

http://www.herbtaylor.com/instruments/tenorguitar/i183/

[zoukboy]

Very very cool Roger .... A few years back I played several of Herbs' tenor guitars in Astoria at TGG4 and the one i liked best had a 'zero'd-out' bridge and the ultra thin top....tho it sported a standard tailpiece. .... After Herb explained it to me i was even more impressed - with the instrument and especially with how he had succeeded in redefining the problem of transferring sound... Its obvious he has pushed the idea much further here. Congrats again on a really bitchen instrument.

All the best

MdJ

PS - Just checked Herbs website- the instrument i played in Astoria is #183 - demonstrated on the Herb Taylor website by .......Mr. Roger Landes....

http://www.herbtaylor.com/instruments/tenorguitar/i183/

Yes. That is a nice one, and it has the tenor version of the "zero down pressure" bridge.

[zoukboy]

After two days this puppy is really starting to open up. I put slightly heavier strings on the first three strings tonight and I like it better. Gauges are now:

len 22.75"
E4 .013" PL == 21.82#
A3 .021" NW == 21.52#
D3 .032" PB == 24.3#
G2 .045" PB == 21.5#
C3 .034" PB == 21.92#
C2 .00071196468 == 16.33# (this is the Hannabach .062" classical guitar bass string)
total == 127.4#

Still very low tension overall, not much more than a classical guitar. (For comparison a six string acoustic with 13-56 strings will be almost 190#.)

[mrmando]

So this is liuto tuning plus an octave C, with the option of dropping the bass strings by a step and a half, yes?

[fox]

Really interesting design, I love anything that deviates away from the norm.

[bruce.b]

I can't wait to hear this.

Here is a good video of the Nordic version mentioned in a post above.

https://silkwoodmusic.wordpress.com/...s-not-a-banjo/

[bruce.b]

Hmmm, I've often thought about how useful a a low C string would be on a tenor guitar tuned GDAE. I wouldn't want the other 4 strings longer than 22", and didn't know of a good way to get that low C string longer. This idea looks excellent. Now add in some pinpoint capos and it has many interesting possibilities for alternate tunings too.

Maybe I'l ask Herb about this. I love my Herb archtops..... an archtop version? I'm just musing on the idea at this point since I'm so happy with my standard GDAE tenors.

[zoukboy]

So this is liuto tuning plus an octave C, with the option of dropping the bass strings by a step and a half, yes?

Well, I suppose, but don't think of it that way. I think of it as Irish tenor banjo/OM tuning with an extra octave-doubled bass course:

C2 G2 D3 A3 E4
B1 F2#
B1b F2
A1 E2

[zoukboy]

Hmmm, I've often thought about how useful a a low C string would be on a tenor guitar tuned GDAE. I wouldn't want the other 4 strings longer than 22", and didn't know of a good way to get that low C string longer. This idea looks excellent. Now add in some pinpoint capos and it has many interesting possibilities for alternate tunings too.

Maybe I'l ask Herb about this. I love my Herb archtops..... an archtop version? I'm just musing on the idea at this point since I'm so happy with my standard GDAE tenors.

hey Bruce,

I would be nervous about trying the C2 string on anything shorter (22.75" in this case).

[bruce.b]

Hi Roger,
I meant using this method to lengthen the C2 string. If it was about 27" that should be long enough. The rest of the strings 22".

[Charles E.]

Very interesting tenor! That tailpiece is over the top. Pun intended.