Scale Patterns

[Jon Hall]

I'm familiar with playing a major scale in third intervals, both ascending and descending i.e. G-B-A-C-B-D-C-E-D-F#-E-G-F#-A-G and G-E-F#-D-E-C-D-B-C-A-B-G-A-F#-G. What are some other scale patterns that will help me melodically?

[Michael Neverisky]

Melodic patterns that occur quite a bit, things like:

G-F#-E-G F#-E-D-F# E-D-C-E etc
G-B-A-G A-C-B-A B-D-C-B etc.

I'm sure you have run across them when playing fiddle tunes.

[billhay4]

FFCP

[Jon Hall]

I'm using the FFCP fingering. It's the scale patterns I want to learn. I had Jesse Cobb for a mandolin course at Swannanoa and he showed us the example I included in my op.

[DavidKOS]

What are some other scale patterns that will help me melodically?

That depends on the music you wish to play. Scales are highly useful tools as are the scale-based patterns you are using - but another way to play melodically is to incorporate chord arpeggios into your playing, so perhaps learning those will help.

Maybe try taking the scales you know and playing them in 3 and 4 note chords:

C E G, D F A, E G B, F A C, G B D, A C E, B D F, etc.

CEGB, DEFC, EGBD, FACE, GBDF, ACEG, BDFA

and in reverse.

Best of luck.

[Pete Martin]

3rds diatonically like David said. 4ths diatonically, 5ths diatonically, etc. You wont hear that much in any folk music but you will hear it in Jazz.

Also 3rd up, scale down and opposite. All examples in C CE, BD, AC, etc.
4th up, scale down and opposite. CF, BE, AD, etc.
5th up, scale down and opposite. CG, BF, AE, etc
etc.

Any interval up, any interval down.

Also combine up and down into one pattern. Davids 3rd example above was CEGB, DFCA, EGBD, FACE. Reverse this on each set of 4 notes CEGB, CAFD, EGBD, ECAF. Coltrane used these sounds quite a bit earlier in his recording career.

These can do wonders for your left hand dexterity if practiced regularly. Used in very small bits in improv, they can give you some good melodic material. Used too much, they just sound like patterns. Try going into and out of them for improvising practice.

[billhay4]

I'm using the FFCP fingering. It's the scale patterns I want to learn.

Well, I've never been afraid to show my ignorance, but what exactly is a scale pattern?
Bill

[twilson]

Check out Patterns for Jazz by Jerry Coker. All kinds of scale patterns, arpeggios, etc.

Tim Wilson

[bennyb]

If you go to Mandozine search and enter...scales..., there are a bunch of patterns you might find interesting(requires Tefview-free Tabledit viewer). You may have seen them already.

benny

edit: also run ... scale .... for some not included above.

[mandocrucian]

It's endless.


Use of alternating ascending and descending groups (applicable to all patterns of various note-grouping lengths - 3 note, 4 note, 5 notes etc.)

ascending ascending: G-B -A-C B-D C-E D-F# E-G F#-A G

ascending descending: G-B C-A B-D E-C D-F# G-E F#-A G

descending ascending: B-G A-C D-B C-E F#-D E-G A-F# G

Triplets
G-B-G A-C-A B-D-B C-E-C D-F#-D E-G-E F#-A-F# G

G-B-A C-B-D C-E-D F#-E-G F#-a-g b-a-c d-b-c e

5/8
G-B-G A-C | B-D-B C-E | D-F#-D E-G | F#-A-F# G |

Put the pattern into various rhythms 1/4-1/8 ; 1/8-1/4 , or repeat the pitches.

GGBB AACC BBDD CCEE DDD#F# EEGG F#F#AA G
GBBB- ACCC- BDDD CEEE- D-F#FF EGGG- F#AAA G
GGGB -AAAC BBBD CCCE -D-F#-E-G-F#-A-G

I worked with Jerry Coker's book "Patterns For Jazz" on mandolin back in the late 70's . Practice many of these type exercises these days on flute, for improving my technical chops on that instrument. Or I just make up my own patterns/exercises . Also, plenty of scale patterns in Sevcik and other violin methods.


Patterns For Jazz
On the Amazon page, it gives the publishing date as April 1982, but I pulled out my copy which says copyright 1970.

Niles H

[SincereCorgi]

I also like Patterns for Jazz, and the Arban's trumpet book has a jillion exercises that lay nicely in the mandolin's range.



For improvisation, I have found that I get more juice out of arpeggios than scales, though.

[DavidKOS]

I also like Patterns for Jazz, and the Arban's trumpet book has a jillion exercises that lay nicely in the mandolin's range.

...
For improvisation, I have found that I get more juice out of arpeggios than scales, though.

Hence the suggestion to learn chord arpeggios.

Arban! That book is also on my shelf,and it also has a great number of duets, too, often opera excerpts that are surprisingly suited to mandolin. Good choice!

[Ausdoerrt]

Also, plenty of scale patterns in Sevcik and other violin methods.

Is Schradieck any good for mandolin? It's pretty much like a bible for many violin players.

[AlanN]

Jethro's books had some patterns, Exercise a la Ellington was one.

[ald]

[As a matter of fact, can anyone cite a few typical David Grishman patterns, please? A lot of his solos seem to have very similar ascending or descending configurations.

[JeffD]

Not being a jazz player, I find it easier to work the problem from the other side, from the "need".

What I mean is that scale exercises are fun, but they are exercises because they are not, ultimately, what you want to play. So I go all the way to the finish line and look at what ever it is I want to play - identify the runs and riffs and scale patterns that need to be mastered, and make them into the scale exercises I work on.

In the fiddle tune repertory there are a lot of riffs and phrases that show up in many tunes. Additionally, any phrase can be played a string up or down, or repeated over and over rising a full note each time, and made into a real exhausting exercise. So working on a particular phrase this way has benefits beyond learning the tune I robbed it from.

I have a notebook of crazy exercises I invented in this way. Nothing profound, just a lot of fun.

(The jazz exclusion is that I think a good jazz player almost by definition cannot identify exactly what will be needed and kind of has to learn it all.)

[JeffD]

Going through my notebook of exercises I find this curiosity:

I had a friend who played classical violin, with an emphasis on very very modern stuff. Stuff I have trouble getting my ears around. So, to kind of poke fun at him, I composed some exercises based on my phone numbers. My home phone, my work phone, my cell phone, in various orders. It took me many months but got so I could play them at a respectable speed.

I debuted my "modern composition" at a party we were at. I don't remember if I ever explained to him where those quirky jarring melodies came from. He indulged my compositional effort and made polite comments.

I have always suspected that if I had lied and told him they were a composition of some obscure but respected in the right circles modern composer, he would not have doubted it, and been impressed at my finding this music.

Maybe my ignorance of modern music is on display here.

Beyond general flexibility I don't think those phone number etudes are all that useful, besides which my phone numbers have changed since then.

[Michael Neverisky]

...I debuted my "modern composition" at a party we were at. I don't remember if I ever explained to him where those quirky jarring melodies came from. He indulged my compositional effort and made polite comments....

Back in my conservatory days we irreverently referred to music
which lacked visceral appeal as belonging to the Society For The
Presentation Of 20th Century Liner Notes.

Or, "Combinatoriality Strikes Again!".

Yeah, we were geeks way before personal computers hit the scene.

[RonEllison]

I'm familiar with playing a major scale in third intervals, both ascending and descending i.e. G-B-A-C-B-D-C-E-D-F#-E-G-F#-A-G and G-E-F#-D-E-C-D-B-C-A-B-G-A-F#-G. What are some other scale patterns that will help me melodically?

I've no idea about jazz scale patterns but here are a couple I used to use. They are based on four eighth notes and the patterns are then repeated one diatonic note higher or lower.

E╓──────────┬──────────┬─────0────┬───0─2────┐
A╟──0─2─4─0─┼──2─4─5─2─┼─4─5───4──┼─5─────5──┤
D╟──────────┼──────────┼──────────┼──────────┤
G╙──────────┴──────────┴──────────┴──────────┘


E╓────0─────┬────2─0───┬────4─2─0─┬────5─4─2─┐
A╟──0───5─4─┼──2─────5─┼──4───────┼──5───────┤
D╟──────────┼──────────┼──────────┼──────────┤
G╙──────────┴──────────┴──────────┴──────────┘

or longer eight note patterns

E╓────────────0─────┬────────────2─0───┐
A╟──0─2─4─0─4───5─4─┼──2─4─5─2─5─────5─┤
D╟──────────────────┼──────────────────┤
G╙──────────────────┴──────────────────┘

Once you get the hang of it you can make up your own.

[JeffD]

I use this as a warmer upper frequently. I play it like a reel and again like a hornpipe.

[Jon Hall]

I appreciate everyone's replies.

[Killian King]

Jon - I second the suggestion for the mandozine site. If you look in essential tunes\ tabledit files\exercises, there is a file named ScalePatternsForImprovG that is exactly what you are looking for.

[belbein]

3rds diatonically like David said. 4ths diatonically, 5ths diatonically, etc. You wont hear that much in any folk music but you will hear it in Jazz.

Also 3rd up, scale down and opposite. All examples in C CE, BD, AC, etc.
4th up, scale down and opposite. CF, BE, AD, etc.
5th up, scale down and opposite. CG, BF, AE, etc
etc.

Any interval up, any interval down.

Also combine up and down into one pattern. Davids 3rd example above was CEGB, DFCA, EGBD, FACE. Reverse this on each set of 4 notes CEGB, CAFD, EGBD, ECAF. Coltrane used these sounds quite a bit earlier in his recording career.

Pete: Thanks for this. It's helpful and I'm going to add it to all the exercises I'm kicking myself for not doing. (yes, I know I'm like 2 months late to read it, but hey. Life and all that). I do have a question, though: do you do these exercises across all four strings, or only on two or three? I initially did various exercises on all four strings--i.e., practicing scales &c.--but then I started noticing that as a practical matter, in the music I'm playing (all roots stuff) the "runs" seldom cross more than two courses, and at most three.

[Explorer]

belbein - in the excellent book "The Advancing Guitarist," by Mick Goodrick, he challenges readers to practice their instruments as monotars, with only one string. Then, do the same with a duotar, and a tretar, a quadratar, and so on.

I started practicing monolin in the same way.

Granted, anyone may decide that they really don't *need* to work on things outside of what they normally play.

The question then might be... do they not practice beyond that because it's not what they normally play, or do they never play it because they don't have practice in it?

[Relio]

I primarily play solos/improv out of double stop positions. Earlier this year I was at a festival and jamming with a mandolin player that was playing on what I'd consider a professional level. He mentioned to me that playing out of a double stop position is a good way to hang, but.... Then someone started a new song and I never brought up the conversation again. I think what he was going to say was I should play with scales, scale patterns, as my frame of mind. Of course, interesting solos mix up how one plays (double stops, patterns, scales, etc.), but based on many of my favorite sounding solos, it seems scale patterns make appearances quite often. Thanks for this thread, I started working on my patterns with more earnest this morning. This process of improving as a musician is truly a lifetime pursuit. Cheers!