Refinishing A 1919 Gibson A3 Whiteface...

[Spruce]

Hey all...

Let me preface this by saying that this is one of the best-sounding A-models I've ever laid fingers on...
Punchy and clear, and not tubby (in "that" bad way) at all...
Plays in tune, and just rings in the nicest way...

It's a keeper (thanks Eddie!), so-ooo, I want to give it a go and try to restore it to it's former glory...

Problem is, someone decided that it would look better painted black...







We know the top was painted black at one time as well, as the label got oversprayed, and there are traces of black paint on the spruce...





So, my first question is this...

Has anyone here ever attempted to replicate the old Whiteface finishes??
The ones I've seen in person (and the dozens online) all display a paint that is unchecked over the years, almost like an enamel...
Opaque, bland, but incredibly elegant, especially with that white 'guard...

I'm thinking of just going with a rattlecan of Rustoleum "Navajo White", and hope for the best...
But I've love to hear if anyone out there has been down the same road, and your experiences...

Secondly, I'd love some input on how to achieve the reddish hues on the birch and mahogany...

I'm thinking of hand-rubbing a water-based stain, and see if I can get it to even out...
I think this is a similar color to the backs of a lot of A4s...

I'll post some pics of some original A3s in a bit here...

Thanks all...

[Spruce]

OK, here's what I'm going for:

[Tom C]

I like the white if it can be done. Just not too white please,

[Spruce]

I like the white if it can be done. Just not too white please,

I think it's doable...
The ones I've seen in person have been a subtle shade of ivory...
Maybe a shellac top-coat to yellow it out a tad, too...

[sunburst]

The red for the sides and back is the easy part. I've matched that several times using alcohol soluble dyes, rubbed directly on the wood. (The back, sides and neck of the "restoration challenge" mandolin are that color.) Just start with brown and add red until you're close, then look at your scrap (you're working on a scrap) under every available light (sun light, fluorescent, incandescent, etc.) and adjust the color by adding primary colors to counter whatever is "off" in the color.

I haven't done the Gibson white top color yet, but when (I'm optimistic...) I get back to work on instruments, I have a white top in the works. My plan is to add some kind of white pigment to shellac and adjust the color by adding yellow and whatever other pigments it takes to get a match.

One thing I though of was simply painting the top with Kilz, to which pigments could be added to adjust the color, and them use clear over it. I'm not sure how color fast Kilz is, so it was just a thought.

[fatt-dad]

(I just own one. . . ) The white top is an off-white leaning towards (what I call) taupe. The binding's a touch brighter, but more of the ivory look leaning what I'd call amber.

I am considering having Wayne finish my oval-hole snakehead as a white-snake. Gibson never made one and I haven't seen one elsewhere. By the time Wayne gets it done, one may be built though. . .

f-d

[Chunky But Funky]

I got this not too long ago. I really think they nailed how those might have looked new. If I'm not mistaken, Collings even refers to it as a "Ivory Top" and not "White Top". I could swear I read somewhere what color Collings used for this. I'll look around.

Doug

[Timbofood]

Spruce, I sent this thread to a friend, he may weigh in but, has been bitten by the fiddle bug related to the Emerald Isle so, it could take a few days.

[Spruce]

One thing I though of was simply painting the top with Kilz, to which pigments could be added to adjust the color, and them use clear over it. I'm not sure how color fast Kilz is, so it was just a thought.

For those of you (like me) who didn't know what Kilz is, here ya go...

Yeah, I've got a Whiteface here to work to, and the white paint is very odd looking...
A tad of gloss...
Stay tuned for what I come up with...

I got this not too long ago. I really think they nailed how those might have looked new. If I'm not mistaken, Collings even refers to it as a "Ivory Top" and not "White Top". I could swear I read somewhere what color Collings used for this. I'll look around.

I forgot about those!
I know one of the finishers over at Collings, so will pick his brain and get back to you...
Thanks!

[Wes Brandt]

Hey Bruce.. do you have a spray gun? It's very easy to mix up nitro with Stewmac white pigment and then tint it with a tiny bit of vintage amber or golden brown or other shading colors to get what you want…

http://www.stewmac.com/Materials_and...r_Lacquer.html

[Spruce]

Hey Bruce.. do you have a spray gun? It's very easy to mix up nitro with Stewmac white pigment and then tint it with a tiny bit of vintage amber or golden brown or other shading colors to get what you want…

http://www.stewmac.com/Materials_and...r_Lacquer.html

I'm in SoCal helping out my folks, so not in my shop...
Doing this to keep occupied, and I picked a project that I knew I wouldn't need a lot of tools to accomplish...
If I was at home, I go the spray gun/Stew Mac pigment route for sure on the white top...
But trying to get 'er done another way, and I think I can pull it off...

I lot of the Telecaster antiquing I do at home is done with rattlecans (I like the lack of paint quality that allows the resulting finish to check), but in this case, I've never seen an A3 with checking...
Every one is flat, and totally intact...
Stay tuned...

[Timbofood]

"Kelvinator white" one buddy calls it
Another refers to it as "Amana white"
Just one little side comment.
However, the art store guy in me would call it "Warm white"

[Spruce]

A nice Whiteface just hit the Classifieds...
Here tis...
That link also shows a sold A3 that "has a 60s Gibson re-finish as far as we can tell...
Interesting to see Gibson's 60's take on refinishing one of these puppies...

The ad (NFI, by the way ) also states:

"Every white face I've had has had fantastic tone and this one is no exception"

This one I'm working on is insane...
Anyone else notice that these Whitefaces can sound really really good?
Maybe it's all that wide-grain Picea rubens that they are covering up with that paint...





Whiteface fever...

[Timbofood]

I think there were three on eBay a few months back, this may well be one, the wear looks pretty close if memory serves.
My memory never serves just, clears the dishes

[Spruce]

I think there were three on eBay a few months back, this may well be one, the wear looks pretty close if memory serves.
My memory never serves just, clears the dishes

Your memory is spot-on...

[Timbofood]

"Even a blind dog finds a bone now and then"

[Spruce]

Got a lot of time on my hands here, so I'm gonna go ahead and document this whole refin process...

OK, we need to get that black paint off of there...
Going to try this stuff for the first time:



Here we go:





OK, much to my relief, there are no neck repairs or major structural damage on this puppy...
Black paint is usually a bad sign--hides all the nasty (and often poorly done) neck--and other--repairs...

What is revealed, is that somewhere along the line this A3 lost it's veneer on the back of the peghead--probably in the refinishing process...
I went through the Archives and could not find a single A3 from the period without a veneer, so I ordered one up from First Quality...
(Those dyed pearwood veneers can be hard to find, thus the link)...



Speaking of pearwood veneers--which most of these As and other Gibson from the period supposedly were--the front veneer looks like something else...?
Not sure what it is...





Will need to get some ebony stain to get that peghead looking right...

Glueing up the back veneer...



OK, here's where we're at...
Our victim next to another 1919 A3....





More soon...

[Timbofood]

Happy to see restoration of well made old things. My cabinetmaker buddy enjoys the process too, even if he is a banjo player!
He did a bar from scratch for a place in town that looks like it's been there a hundred years. He's pretty color blind but, man, can he replicate the color of those old birch backs!

[Dale Ludewig]

Bruce, that's some pretty fancy wood for just a caul. Probably just somethin' you had laying around.

[Spruce]

Bruce, that's some pretty fancy wood for just a caul. Probably just somethin' you had laying around.

An old (milled in '65) violin set...
Unfortunately, the flames got pressed into the pearwood...
No biggie...

Here's something interesting--the fingerboard side buttons (what do we call those, anyway?) are made from Beech...
I've always encountered maple on As, and of course Macassar ebony on the old Fs...

[Spruce]

Got the red on...
This will darken up after clearcoats...



Next step is the white paint...

[Jeff Mando]

Bruce, that's some pretty fancy wood for just a caul. Probably just somethin' you had laying around.

And the old leather belt scraps are a good tip to cushion the clamps on the front.

[Timbofood]

Coming along well!

[Spruce]

OK, here we go...
I decided to mask the whole rosette area, and hand-paint the strip between the rosette and the black soundhole binding later on...
I also masked an area near the tailpiece for the forearm "wear"...
You see this on just about every old A3...



My biggest concern on this whole deal was getting the white paint "right"...
Tried several brands and shades of white, and the clear winner turned out to be Rust-oleum's "Gloss Ivory"...





Here we go:





I only applied 2-3 coats or so, as I wanted "that" look of the winter grain sticking through the finish, yet opaque enough to hide the graining itself...
Here's the result, compared to a real A3.
Close enough for jazz. With a tad of shellac yellowing for age, we should be in the ballpark...



I'm going to let this sit for 10 days or so, and then get back to it...

[John Bertotti]

Spruce that looks like a fun project! Thanks for sharing the images as you go!