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Thread: I have been playing wrong all my life

  1. #76
    Economandolinist Amanda Gregg's Avatar
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    Default Re: I have been playing wrong all my life

    Speaking as a college teacher, cstviz's story sounds heartbreakingly like so much of what goes through my own economics students' heads as they try to figure out whether they can "cut it." What a wonderful community we have where Joe Walsh and August Watters can just hop right on here and reply. Hope cstviz is doing well, whatever he's doing.
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  2. #77
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    Default Re: I have been playing wrong all my life

    FYI, here's a video of someone using the same "wrong" picking technique the the OP is worried about (the second guy to take a break). He seems to have no problem getting around on the mando. There's also a video going around on the cafe today called "Interesting Cross Picking Video" or something like that. Steve Morse is on there and he is one of the best guitar players ever. He uses that same technique. Santana does as well (or something similar). So while the the standard approach is pick against the side of the first finger, there are plenty of great players that do it the other way. I have even seen an explanation from a great guitar play (can't remember name right now) about how the "wrong" way is actually a better way to pick.


  3. #78
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    Default Re: I have been playing wrong all my life

    I found that info I was talking about. Tuck Andress is the guitar player. It's pretty dense reading, but it's really interesting if you're into that sort of thing. The short story is that he considers the "best" way to hold the pick something like John Reischman with a "reverse" pick angle and using the pad of the first finger rather than the side of the first finger. All this applies to guitar and especially electric guitar where amps and EQ can compensate for volume and tone. Anyway, the point is that there are a lot of different techniques that work well and sometimes the standard technique is not necessarily the best - and the wrong technique can be right.

    Q&A here:
    http://www.tuckandpatti.com/picking_questions.html

    Original article that the Q&A section refers to:
    http://www.tuckandpatti.com/pick-fin...ch.html#1.2.11

  4. #79
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    Default Re: I have been playing wrong all my life

    If the school and or teacher will fail you for playing fine with speed and dynamics with good tremolo they are wrong not you don't give up the mandolin for their stupidity. Ever hear of Dizzy Gilespie, no teacher would teach him to swell up like a toad frog his armasure was terrible but his music was fine so he went on to make a good living regardless.

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  6. #80
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    Default Re: I have been playing wrong all my life

    A chance to go to Berkley SOM and you don't take it? Pretty sure I don't get that one. Life has plenty slights and few chances.

  7. #81

    Default Re: I have been playing wrong all my life

    It's unorthodox on guitar too but look at how Dan Crary holds his pick. And he is as good as they get.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOuXBAfi_qY

  8. #82
    Registered User mandomurph's Avatar
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    Default Re: I have been playing wrong all my life

    Quote Originally Posted by yankees1 View Post
    Stan the Man Musial had the wrong batting stance and he was advised to change it but he didn't ! I think his stance stands on its own by his lifetime batting records.
    Stan also played the mandolin. Don't know if he used the right techniques or not. I have a hunch though.
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  10. #83
    mando-evangelist August Watters's Avatar
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    Default Re: I have been playing wrong all my life

    I'm concerned we're talking about the OP's pick grip technique in terms of "right" and "wrong," since he went through unnecessary anguish about being different. Probably it's because of the video referenced earlier, where a famous player said "there's pretty much just one way to hold the pick."

    Our mando-world is much larger than just one famous player. There are other technical traditions in which the OP's way of holding the pick is considered the "normal" way, and as others have pointed out there are also the outliers closer to us who use what is (to us) unconventional technique. To tap our real potential, it helps to be aware of how other players might use technique differently -- and what that suggests about the choices we might make.

    The pick grip question came up again yesterday in a bluegrass master class, here at the Joe Val Bluegrass Festival. Everyone in the class was obviously there to work on bluegrass, but not everyone used the "standard" pick grip (pick on side of index finger). One guy played really well with a "non-standard" pick grip (pick on pad of index finger), so I didn't ask him to change -- instead I just brought up the conversation about how most bluegrass players hold the pick the other way, and the reasons he might (or might not) considering switching. There was also a less-experienced player with the "non-standard" pick grip, and for that person I was a little stronger in recommending a switch to the "standard" grip. I think that, armed with a better understanding of how things are usually done, adult learners are better off making their own decisions about which road to take.

    Which is not to say that anything goes. There was one class member who had a fair amount of thumb wiggle going on, and it seemed like this was not adding anything, and was reducing his potential sound. So in that case I did make a strong recommendation about changing technique.

    I remember my late colleague John McGann once wrote: "There's more than one right way to play the mandolin. But there are even more wrong ways." I suppose that the difference will always remain subjective, and a source of debate. But that's one reason we're here, right?
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  12. #84
    This Kid Needs Practice Bill Clements's Avatar
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    Default Re: I have been playing wrong all my life

    A fine example of pick technique from Caterina Lichtenberg:
    "Music is the only noise for which one is obliged to pay." ~ Alexander Dumas

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  14. #85
    Registered User Petrus's Avatar
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    Default Re: I have been playing wrong all my life

    I'd agree with the general consensus that there is more than one "right" technique for a given element of playing an instrument, and that you should get the basics down and know what is generally accepted, but not worry too much if you go off in an idiosyncratic direction if that works for you.

    I would only draw the line if you're doing something that might potentially be harmful, e.g. a position that might lead to tendon or muscle issues over time.

  15. #86
    Circle of Fifths NewKid's Avatar
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    Default Re: I have been playing wrong all my life

    Young people are so all or nothing sometimes. "All my life!"

    Isn't your life is just beginning?

    You have a chance to start over every day and make the adjustments needed to make your life the best possible one.

    Courage.

  16. #87

    Default Re: I have been playing wrong all my life

    You might have a medical condition called essential tremor. This often causes bad handwriting. Your doctor can prescribe Primidone to improve your fine motor skills.

    I lost a good ten years of good picking because I didn't want to take any drugs. Since I started the medicine about three months ago my picking and writing ability have significantly improved.

  17. #88
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    Default Re: I have been playing wrong all my life

    I remember when I was told I was picking the wrong way. I refused to change for a while but I noticed, felt and saw with my own eyes that there was great relieved tension in the tendons of my wrist when I adjusted from guitar picker, 2 finger tips and thumb to mandolin pickers outside pointer and thumb. Took months but, it was worth it. Also makes catching the pick when it slips a natural action.

  18. #89

    Default Re: I have been playing wrong all my life

    I think it's amazing that the community including Joe Walsh and August Watters are helping here. How lucky are we.

    cstviz; Admission to a music school means you have the potential and talent to be great. Otherwise, the jurors wouldn't have let you in the door. So, take a breath and rely on that knowledge for a moment. I went to Carnegie Mellon University, and can tell you that the ranking process first year is meant to do several things... one of which is to intimidate students and get a few to leave (those who don't have the grit to stick with it, and work hard to admit and work on their weaker skills). If you leave now, you're telling the school you don't have the confidence or stick-to-itiveness to actually graduate. It has no bearing on your musical ability at this point... it's more about your conviction.

    The ranking is a measure of how you compare in current performance capabilities to other students. Ranking is part of the way that the university tracks your progress. The fact that your dad was an 8 is wonderful for him... but should have no bearing on you or your educational course. You're different people...

    Go talk to your teachers... ask them about the specific things they want you to work on... and then focus and put in your time on the tough part. Playing stuff you love, and comes easily to you, won't advance your playing as much as working on something that doesn't come easily. Show them you've got the focus and conviction to get through the tough spots.

    Stick with it, you are in charge of your own destiny... this is completely up to you. No-one has said you're a failure or untalented, they've told you that you have a lot to work on.... which, frankly.. we all do!

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