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Thread: I have been playing wrong all my life

  1. #1

    Exclamation I have been playing wrong all my life

    I'm having some serious anxiety right now after finding out I have been using incorrect right hand technique. I hold the pick between the meat of my thumb and the meat of my index finger (with my middle finger supporting). The palm of my hand is usually anchored above the bridge. I recently discovered that I am supposed to hold the pick against the side of my index finger and not anchor any part of my arm/hand at all.

    I play fine as it is, my dynamics are good, I can play fast, I can play great tremolo. But I just started attending a major music college and I will soon have a private lesson teacher. I have been trying to learn the correct technique but I just don't have the precision when I play correctly. I end up messing up lines I used to be able to do easily, hitting strings accidentally, lacking rhythm. I don't want to embarrass myself in front of my private lesson teacher by playing so wrongly, but I don't want him to think I can't play with precision either.

    Can anyone help me?

  2. #2

    Default Re: I have been playing wrong all my life

    It's also worth pointing out that I have very poor motor skills. I have had atrocious handwriting since I was a kid. Could this be related? Is this something I can fix or something I will have to be ashamed of all my life?

  3. #3
    Registered User Hadji36's Avatar
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    Default Re: I have been playing wrong all my life

    If you watch pitchers in baseball you'll see all kinds of different techniques. Although there is a "standard" throwing motion, there are a myriad of different ways to get the ball over the plate and rack up the strikes. I remember as a kid, we would all throw "sidearm" in the backyard, pretending to be Kent Tekulve.

    If you are concerned about your current technique and want to fix certain aspects, focus and repetition will do the trick. There was a very cool and interesting thread on neuropathways a few months back that addressed this issue.
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    Registered User Bill Baldridge's Avatar
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    Default Re: I have been playing wrong all my life

    You might try not worrying so much. What is a private lesson teacher for, anyway? It doesn't appear that you had to audition your right hand picking technique to get in. Congrats on making it into the school.
    Last edited by Bill Baldridge; Sep-02-2015 at 7:32pm.

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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: I have been playing wrong all my life

    Ever watch Chet Atkins play guitar? Look at his left thumb. If your teacher sees that you are able to play I'm pretty sure they'll build on what you already have.
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    Default Re: I have been playing wrong all my life

    I think it's good that you are now aware of the different ways to manage your right hand, but not everyone follows those guidelines. Any good teacher will find alternatives when their initial attempt at showing you something or how to do something doesn't work for you.

    There is a great John Reischman interview in the Fretboard Journal (NFI) in which he discusses how he holds his pick. John admits it's different than many of us were taught, but it sure works for him.
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  11. #7
    Registered User Steve Sorensen's Avatar
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    Default Re: I have been playing wrong all my life

    Working on your weaknesses and refining your technique is what lessons with a good teacher are all about. The key is to quit stressing about where you are at now and start thinking about where you could be with the right teaching and leadership.

    Unless you are Sam Bush, you have room to improve your right-hand technique!

    Don't hesitate in getting help -- you are not alone ! ! !

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  13. #8

    Default Re: I have been playing wrong all my life

    The biggest change will be the pick grip. Once you have "corrected" that, then I think the anchor can be modified to a slight brushing of the bridge/strings behind the bridge, depending if you are playing G/D strings or A/E strings. I would bet you can be more accurate with this method once you get into it. Are you sure you aren't "floating" the right hand? That is terrible for accuracy I have found. I am currently struggling with a twisting of the wrist instead of using slight arm movements, which causes accuracy problems and inconsistent tone as I am changing the angle of attack on the strings when I twist.

    Not sure how you can not "anchor" the arm against the edge of the mandolin, of all the pieces in place, that seems to be the most static placement. I do use an armrest, and it slides up and down the forearm a bit. I subscribe (financially and figuratively!) to the Mike Marshall school of right hand, you should be able to find a video on it, I think there was a link floating around here somewhere.

    Edit: here is a link to some tips, he briefly goes into right hand technique as well as other tips

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmag...layer_embedded
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    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: I have been playing wrong all my life

    If you achieve nothing else, you may get some flexibility in your choice of picking technique. Your present technique for certain pieces and another technique for others. Flexibility is better than rigid adherence to one style of picking, regardless of how "right" it is. IMO anyway.
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    Registered User darylcrisp's Avatar
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    Default Re: I have been playing wrong all my life

    watch Robin Bullock, especially around 4:28 , if you don't know Robin check him out. the man can play quite well. also Haley Dykes play as you do, check her music out.


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  19. #11
    Registered User rockies's Avatar
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    Default Re: I have been playing wrong all my life

    Back some years ago I had a lesson with a nineteen year old Chris (Critter) Eldridge on guitar. (I was in my 60's) He asked what I wanted help with and I told him my treble strings didn't come through with any power or clarity when playing rhythm. He looked at my playing and said "Well you're holding your guitar wrong". He had me move the guitar to my left so my arm came over the guitar lower on the bass bout, more behind the bridge so my arm could follow through all the strings. After 50 plus years of playing it took a while to get it .. but what a difference in my playing, rhythm cleaner, stronger and my flatpicking improved dramatically. So do spend the time to get that technique as good as you can, it will pay off down the line big time.
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  21. #12

    Default Re: I have been playing wrong all my life

    Assuming you're starting lessons soon, I think you should stick with the technique that is familiar to you. Your instructor will want to see how you play so both of you can work together to make a plan for improving your abilities. I have less experience with music lessons than I do with feeling embarrassed, but I think trying to hide your current style will just make you feel more intimidated and slow you down.

    Remember that a good instructor will be finding "flaws" with everyones playing, so what you're worried about is something that will happen with all the students. Plus, you could be wrong about which aspects of your playing style are incorrect (like two wrongs not making a right). Let your instructor be the judge.

    Maybe you can think that your responsibility as a student is to communicate with your instructor instead of thinking that your job is to "show off" how good you are. You can plan on letting your instructor know that you are aware that you play differently and you are interested in hearing their suggestions.
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  23. #13

    Default Re: I have been playing wrong all my life

    It's very disorienting at first, but I found that once I committed to a change of technique, it really wasn't a very big deal to make the switch. Now, if you still have a feeling that your original technique will serve you better, that's another matter. For all anyone knows, you may be right. You'll never know unless you give the alternative a serious try. But why not learn to play with two or three different holds? Maybe one will be good for one kind of sound, and the other to change things up. My point is, be flexible about your playing and your technique, don't rigidly and dully stick to any one thing if you can avoid it. Show your mando who wears the pants.

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  25. #14
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    Default Re: I have been playing wrong all my life

    Stan the Man Musial had the wrong batting stance and he was advised to change it but he didn't ! I think his stance stands on its own by his lifetime batting records.

  26. #15

    Default Re: I have been playing wrong all my life

    I've made playing changes. Sometimes it takes time, but eventually pays off.

    I've talked with other adults who made changes and were able to do more.

    I'd address it with your teacher. If not, you'll be like those folks who hire someone to clean the house occasionally, but who clean up first every time because they don't want the person to think badly of them. In this case though, you're paying to learn how to do better.
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  27. #16

    Default Re: I have been playing wrong all my life

    Thanks for the responses, everyone.

    Some more information: I have been playing like this since I was about 9. I have tried to play correctly, but I end up stumbling on the strings. It makes me feel like I have no control (because I don't have any control). For those who are telling me to simply address it with my teacher, you have to understand that this is a very competitive school and that I risk falling behind and possibly being asked to not return next semester. As it happens, all of this has led me to consider dropping out and giving up on mandolin altogether. I don't know if I could stand feeling like a child on my own primary instrument. Which seems to be one of two options. The other is to keep playing how I already play and be constantly told that I'm playing wrong.

    I'm sorry about the dramatics in this post, but this all happened very suddenly and it has kind of turned my world upside down. Imagine how you would feel? It's the same feeling as when you forgot to save your Word document and it crashes. "Are you serious? I have to start all over again." I can't believe no one has ever thought to correct me on any of this.

  28. #17
    Registered User Hadji36's Avatar
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    Default Re: I have been playing wrong all my life

    cstviz,

    Hang in there. You must have something...that SOMETHING that got you into the "major music college" in the first place. Remember that they chose YOU. For something that they saw in YOUR style and passion. Embrace that and work on what you think will make you a better player. It's the nuisances that make music interesting. If we all played the same...the same rhythm, technique and style, then we would have no innovation in music.

    Keep us advised of your progress and experiences as you go forth...I for one am interested.

    Best of luck and do yourself proud!!!

    P.S. Why not post a little video of your playing for us to hear. I'd love to hear it.
    Last edited by Hadji36; Sep-02-2015 at 11:48pm.
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    Default Re: I have been playing wrong all my life

    When I got to college, my new clarinet teacher had me totally change me tonguing from anchor-tongue to a floating-tongue, which is more or less analogous to a drastic change of pick grip. It was rough for a week, but after that everything improved. Sometimes it's worth tearing down the shack, even if it provides shelter, to make room to put up a proper house.

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  32. #19

    Default Re: I have been playing wrong all my life

    Quote Originally Posted by cstviz View Post
    I'm sorry about the dramatics in this post, but this all happened very suddenly and it has kind of turned my world upside down. Imagine how you would feel?
    No need to apologize - that's how you feel, and I can definitely relate, which is why I hope I can at least help you feel at least a little calmer about your situation. I don't know anything about your school - it definitely might be as "cut throat" as you say, but you're definitely not sure about what will happen - no sense in pre-emptively quitting.

    You said your school already started, right? Are you scheduled for lessons this semester? If so, your first meeting will probably happen before you can make any big changes anyway. If not, consider setting up a meeting with your future mandolin instructor if possible. Or just send an email. If that's not an option, maybe talk to some older students.

    What you're feeling is very common in college, grad school, etc. It's called "imposter syndrome" - it's basically when someone in an unfamiliar environment thinks everyone else is more accomplished than them and is worried that they'll be "found out" as being not as good. Everyone else seems more accomplished, but the truth is that many of those people see themselves as being less accomplished, to. Really, everyone in school achieved something by being there, and everyone in school has a lot to learn.

    About your specific mandolin issues, there are definitely different schools of thought. A lot of people on here as well as a lot of big names (in certain genres) will say that resting your wrist is acceptable, and you just have to make sure it's a light touch and not muting the strings. Other traditions will hold the wrist low and be more likely to use the fingers as a guide. Personally, although I haven't been playing as long, I decided to break the habit resting my wrist because I wanted to be more comfortable moving to different positions on the strings. It's pretty awkward feeling still, but I do also feel it becoming easier. I also just today got an arm rest and it makes everything much more comfortable to me. You might consider using one at least to help you get used to keeping your wrist away from the bridge.

    There seems to be a lot of variety in holding picks, too, even within genres (i.e., bluegrass players holding the pick differently from each other, classical players holding the pick differently from each other).
    Last edited by objectsession; Sep-02-2015 at 11:18pm.
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    Default Re: I have been playing wrong all my life

    Music would never progress if musicians and composers didn't try it their way.
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    Default Re: I have been playing wrong all my life

    When I taught guitar I did teach students the so-called "Correct way" to make sure they knew about it and at least gave it an honest try--but if they could do well another way without danger of hurting themselves--yeah--go for it.

    SOme of them switched from their way to how I taught them--some didn't--and some sued both---or adapted a new way.
    I also taught the exceptions I made--after teaching the "correct way"
    Would it save you a lot of time if I just gave up and went mad now?

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  37. #22
    totally amateur k0k0peli's Avatar
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    Default Re: I have been playing wrong all my life

    What is right? What is wrong? Not morally -- such mores evolve socially -- but in musical practice?

    Consider a metaphor. The military calls it The Book, or SOP, Standard Operating Procedure. All the rules for military life and operations are contained in The Book. Your career will never suffer if you always to things By The Book. Just follow SOP.

    Now suppose you try something that isn't in The Book and you fail. You are screwed. Your career is flushed. Maybe you are dead. Ah, but if you succeed... then your gambit goes into The Book and becomes SOP itself.

    Just so, in music, one can never go wrong by playing and performing By The Book. Follow the established practices. Attain mastery in an approved manner. Hold it just so. Play it just so. And then, when you want to spring free and fly away to new hights, you will have a solid base to leap from. You will know which rules to break.

    I have been playing wrong all my life too. Do as I say, not as I do.
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    Registered User almeriastrings's Avatar
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    Default Re: I have been playing wrong all my life

    Can you play accurately? Cleanly? Get good tone and volume? Sound you you want to sound like?

    If so, you are doing it 'right'.

    Whatever anyone else says.
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  40. #24
    Registered User Hendrik Ahrend's Avatar
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    Default Re: I have been playing wrong all my life

    Rest assured and watch my friend Paul, technique like feeding chickens, but a wonderful player:http:////www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mtpGugQ0jU

  41. #25

    Default Re: I have been playing wrong all my life

    I had fifteen years of Eric Clapton style pick grip behind me before I made the decisio9n to change. It took about a week for my fingers and brain to adjust and the effect on my playing has been very positive. The reason I encourage you to make the ffort and change to the suggested grip is because it makes moving from chords to tremelo to picking melody lines effortless - you no longer have to adjust your hand position. Previously I had noticed a big difference in my hand position when using different techniques but with the concentional grip the movement is basically the same but bigger or quicker. It helps your brain to realise that tremelo is effectively just a series of quick up down notes rather that a completely different technique. But in my experience this couldn't be achieved when the plectrum is held by an extended thumb and finger. I'm so glad I changed.

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