Beautiful Brentrup PML

[Larry S Sherman]

Hi Folks,

There is a really nice looking PML for sale at Greg Boyd's (link to classified ad).

I have NFI, and haven't seen or played this instrument in person. Does anyone know who this belonged to, or if I already have it listed in the Registry? Have you played it? How does it sound?

Some specs from the ad: "Sugar Maple back and sides and two-piece neck. Red spruce top. Fully bound with ivoroid bindings on top, back, along fingerboard, and around headstock. Traditional Cremona sunburst. Ebony peghead overlay with JBrentrup logo and flowerpot pegged inlay (abalone and pearl). Ebony flat fingerboard with small pre-war style mandolin frets, pearl dot inlays, and fingerboard extension scalloped. Ebony two-piece Loar-style adjustable bridge. Tortoise ivoroid-bound pickguard scalloped to match the fingerboard scallop. Silver James tailpiece with JBrentrup engraved. Nickel Elite tuners with pearloid buttons."

Here are the pics from the ad:



I've noticed that Brentrup prices seem to be rising recently, which I think is reflective of the quality and legacy that Hans has embodied in his instruments. I hold him up there alongside the Derrington Gibsons, Gilchrists, and J. Weins, but that shouldn't surprise anyone that knows me. IMO 2008 was a high-point in Han's builds, and I bet this one is a great mandolin.

I believe that one under-appreciated attribute of a Brentrup mandolin is that the tone develops and gets stronger and more responsive over time. This may be particularly true with the red spruce tops which take a bit longer to break in, especially if they are carved on the thicker side. But once they are broken in they can really shake the walls. At least that is my experience.

Larry

BTW: I have a F5C, so I'm not looking to buy this PML. I get a lot of inquiries looking for F5Cs and PMLs. This one looks like a good match for someone that wants Hans' take on a Loar-spec'd mandolin instead of his signature M23Vs and other interesting personal designs.

[OldGus]

It's a beauty. I remember one posted on the classifieds by Hans directly that was a great deal shortly before he stopped posting. Red Spruce does usually have more power, ring and tremelo effect than the other Spruces. What makes you think people don't appreciate the break in? You rarely see them for sale...

[George R. Lane]

Larry,
I played it a couple of weeks ago and it is a hoss, great tone and volume. I met Hans at his home about 8 years ago and really wanted to commission a PML, but with buying a new business I couldn't afford it. If I could come up with the funds this one would be mine. There is another one from 2003, not quite as powerful as this one.

[sgarrity]

$8,995????? Alrighty then.....

[Larry S Sherman]

$8,995?

Considering the quality and the fact that Hans is no longer building the price seems right to me.

Larry

[Timbofood]

I'm with you Larry, that's not bad at all for the caliber.

[sgarrity]

We'll just have to disagree then. Mandolins on the whole just aren't appreciating at that level in this market. I think Hans makes a nice instrument. I've owned two of them and played a LOT of them, including two PMLs. There's also a Brentrup mandola for sale out there at $20k.......

[Demetrius]

There is no reason why Hans shouldn't be fetching just as much as the Gils, and the Nuggets
And the other top two. As far as craftsmanship and creating a box that moves air in a way you
that creates "that sound", Hans nails it in every Brentrup I've played..

[Larry S Sherman]

There's also a Brentrup mandola for sale out there at $20k

That one is on my MAS list...it WILL BE MINE!

Larry

[Mandobar]

The used market is very soft, even for Gils, Loars, etc., and you never know what people are getting for instruments. We know what they are asking, but everything is negotiable.

[Demetrius]

Larry should sell me the F5C back some day...

[G. Fisher]

I think the price for a PML at the end of when Hans was still actively building was somewhere in the $12,000-$15,000 range. So, at $8,995 that's a pretty big drop.

[bigskygirl]

I have played both mandos at Greg's and agree with George they are very nice. Good tone and volume, action is nice and they are in very good condition. Greg can fill you in on the background of each, the day I was there he told me all about both of them.

[Larry S Sherman]

...at $8,995 that's a pretty big drop.

Agreed. Prices were even worse than that in the last few years. Now starting to go North again.

Larry

[sgarrity]

I think the price for a PML at the end of when Hans was still actively building was somewhere in the $12,000-$15,000 range. So, at $8,995 that's a pretty big drop.

You're thinking of the F5C models. Fully bound faithful Loar recreations. The PML was the Poor Man's Loar. They were around $6k-ish if memory serves me correctly. Maybe $7k

[Mandobar]

I think these were in the 6k range, but I do remember him selling the two prototypes for around 5k. 9k is ambitious pricing, but I've seen a lot of ambitious pricing lately. Then again you never know what anything actually sells for.
Many collectors are cashing out of collections right now. It has started very quietly, but I've had quite a few dealers remark on it.

[Larry S Sherman]

I don't have a 2008 price list, but Hans said:

...it's not exactly budget, but it's flat out about as budget as I can get and keep the quality up to my standard. Let's say it's less than half the price of my F5C. Email me for price.

The PML was in a nice value/price place. Loar specs but less bling, great tone without the extras. You can buy one and upgrade the hardware and be close to a F5C for much less. The scarcity and reputation might be a factor in this one's price.

Of course it will go for what it goes for...a great mandolin is worth the price if it is right for you and you have the $$$.

Larry

[Gary Alter]

I bought one of the last PMLs that Hans offered on the Cafe, it was a very nice mandolin (wish I still had it). If memory serves me it was in the neighborhood of $5,500.00. Of course you can't get a new one now so the market will determine what it's worth.

[maj34]

According to Hans, I bought the next-to-last F5 style mandolin that he built. It is a PML model, and I took delivery in October 2010. As mentioned above, these were Hans' budget varnished F5 models, selling in the $5000-6000 range when new. Hans gave a choice of back/sides wood (red vs. sugar maple) and offered customized necks (neck shape, nut width, fingerboard profile, scooped extension, etc). The differences between the F5C and PML were almost completely cosmetic: triple bound vs. single bound, dovetailed bone points vs. ivoroid points, silver-plated engraved tailpiece vs. nickel stamped, pearl nut vs. bone. One mechanic difference was Waverly tuning machines vs. Elite. I went with red maple, narrow nut, flat fingerboard, non-scooped extension.

I had no intention of buying a new mandolin when I visited Hans in 2008. I had originally visited him to talk oval-hole mandolins, but I got completely hooked on his prototype F5C. I'm not the type of guy who gets into instrument shopping. If I walk into an instrument shop, I usually play something for a couple minutes and decide if I like it or not, then I hang it back on the wall. I had tried F5 mandolins from several of the top builders who go for the traditional sound, and I had played a friend's '24 Loar F5 and another friend's '27 fern F5. Literally the first time I ever had the "I can't put this down" feeling with a mandolin was when I played Hans' F5C prototype. I stewed about it for several months, and I placed my order for the PML in the summer of 2009.

For me, it's the mandolin for a lifetime.

[Bogle]

There is no reason why Hans shouldn't be fetching just as much as the Gils, and the Nuggets
And the other top two. As far as craftsmanship and creating a box that moves air in a way you
that creates "that sound", Hans nails it in every Brentrup I've played..

I'm with you, officespace. Hans' work is truly among the top-tier builders. He built a 21V for me in 2003, followed by a 23V in "blackburst" with natural top....ordered in '04....completed in '07! The sound "jumps" out of both mandolins. Yes, they are tonally wonderful and unique, yet both possess that remarkable sustain so often found in Hans' mandolins. Keepers, to be sure.

[Demetrius]

Bogle, that it's so beautiful man.

[Larry S Sherman]

Another 2008 PML just popped up in the Classifieds. Cool pic and story from Forrest. Once again the price is north of $8K. It's certainly unusual to have a choice of two amazing Loar-style Brentrups on the classifieds at the same time.

Pic with the great Mark O'Connor.



Forrest says "My dad, Mark (pictured above with the instrument), used this mandolin in the three debut performances of a new group we started called The O'Connor Family Band. The performances took place at the most recent Walnut Valley Festival in Winfield, KS. We played dueling mandolins on a few of his tunes, including "A Bowl of Bula," "Macedonia" (one that he originally recorded with Sam Bush in the late '80s), and "Butterfly's Day Out.""

Did any Cafe members catch those performances?

You can hear Forrest play this PML here:



Of course, I have NFI and am not in the market for one of these right now, but don't hesitate to call me if you have an red-sunburst Eclipse!

[Mandobar]

Ambitious pricing.

[Porterfield]

Looks like he dropped it to $7900. So original tag on these was? Nothing surprises me anymore in the instrument market. Seems to me a fine piece. Forrest definitely has some chops! I wasn't aware that Hanns was no longer building mandolins... I would say the hiatus will certainly effect the price point for anyone looking for a Brentrup right now.

[DataNick]

Looks like he dropped it to $7900. So original tag on these was? Nothing surprises me anymore in the instrument market. Seems to me a fine piece. Forrest definitely has some chops! I wasn't aware that Hanns was no longer building mandolins... I would say the hiatus will certainly effect the price point for anyone looking for a Brentrup right now.

A few posts back it was noted by a couple of folks that the PML mandolins sold for somewhere in the $5k-$7k range