Gilchrist Model 5 - how long to get it to open up?

[alexzen]

I just acquired a 2006 Gilchrist 5. I believe it was a collector's instrument that was lightly played. Not in the archives. I am a bit disappointed in its tone. Very playable, but quite bright with very little low end. When compared to my 80's Kentucky Dawg F5 (a $3-4K mandolin) I was surprised that the Kentucky Dawg had much more tone in the low end. Now the difference is that the Dawg is from the 80's and the Gilchrist is less than 10 years old, and if it has not been played maybe I should consider it almost brand new.

It shipped with lighter strings than I play. So, I will put some J74's on it and see what happens.

Wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience - buying a collector's mando that has never been opened up.

[trevor]

J74's will help. Time to open up is an unknown. If the action is very low raising it may also help. I hope you get it to sound how you want.

[Ivan Kelsall]

As Trevor advises,check the action & set it to ''what's right for the mandolin'' right now, in order to increase the volume slightly. In the future,after that mandolin's been played for a while,you may be able to bring the action down slightly. One other thing,let the mandolin 'warm up' physically. Leave it to reach a warm room temperature & see if it opens up. I've found that to happen many times. My mandolins when cold,sound tight & constricted,but when they warm up a bit,the sound opens up considerably.I played my Weber Fern yesterday, & straight from it's case,it sounded just as i said - tight & constricted without it's usual volume. After 15 / 20 minutes of playing in a warm room it was singing !. The J74's should help bring out it's tone,but try maybe a set of GHS A270's. Similar gauges to J74's,but with .016" A strings instead of the usual .015" gauge. They're a very sweetly toned string indeed.Tom Ellis of Ellis mandolins favourite string & he should know what he's talking about.
Bets of luck with your Gil.,it should come good with a lot of playing,
Ivan

[Glassweb]

a friend of mine who's owned many, many Gils swears by the fact that these mandolins need a year of playing before they start to open up and/or blossom and i'm sure he's right. that said, i feel that if a mandolin is lacking in solid fundamentals (volume, balance, tone and consistency up the neck) it may never become the all-around great mandolin that we're all looking for. as much as a Gil F5 costs i must ask you this question... can you really afford to keep a mandolin that you're not excited about?

[Nick Gellie]

I am really sorry to hear that you are not connecting with your Gilchrist straight up. It is really tough when you have forked out some good dough to purchase a high end instrument and it does not meet your expectations. I would take some of the above advice and let it sit for a little while seeing whether it will change in tone to your satisfaction. Sometimes when we have two very good mandolins one will affect what we might think of the other.

[Mandoplumb]

I know there is some doubt about the opening up of instruments but I believe it. I once bought a mandolin (Flatiron) that was almost 10 years old but sounded "new". I knew it's history and it had been played very little, it took some time before it sounded as I thought it should.

[grassrootphilosopher]

I just acquired a 2006 Gilchrist 5. I believe it was a collector's instrument that was lightly played. Not in the archives. I am a bit disappointed in its tone. Very playable, but quite bright with very little low end. When compared to my 80's Kentucky Dawg F5 (a $3-4K mandolin) I was surprised that the Kentucky Dawg had much more tone in the low end. Now the difference is that the Dawg is from the 80's and the Gilchrist is less than 10 years old, and if it has not been played maybe I should consider it almost brand new.

It shipped with lighter strings than I play. So, I will put some J74's on it and see what happens.

Wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience - buying a collector's mando that has never been opened up.

Reading that you aparently own a 70ies Monteleone (presumably an F-5 rather than the "Dawg"-Model) I wonder if you could elaborate the difference in tone etc. as opposed to your Gilchrist. Would a direct comparison between Kentucky vs. Monte echo your findings concerning the comparison between Kentucky vs. Gil?

I have found that Gilchrist mandolins starting at the turn of the century are some of the best yet.

Also it is necessary to know your idea of tone. Solo mandolin may mandate more bass but in ensemble playing more bass may be a hindrance. Each instrument fills out its niche in the musical ensemble.

Also a "green" sounding mandolin is just that but not necessarily a bad sounding instrument. A good green sounding instrument allways seems somewhat "shrill" to me. A mellow sounding green instrument will sound muddy after some years. So shrill and green is not necessarily bad.

I´m interested.

[David Smith]

If the J74 strings do not seem to do the trick try a set of DR-MD 11's. I recently acquired a 2014 Mowry F5 which arrived with a new set of J74's in place and was a bit put off by how bright and tight it sounded. After 3 months with the j74's I replaced them with the DR-MD11's and the difference was immediate and profound. The Mowry produced the exact sound I was looking for.

[AlanN]

I just acquired a 2006 Gilchrist 5. I believe it was a collector's instrument that was lightly played. Not in the archives. I am a bit disappointed in its tone. Very playable, but quite bright with very little low end. When compared to my 80's Kentucky Dawg F5 (a $3-4K mandolin) I was surprised that the Kentucky Dawg had much more tone in the low end. Now the difference is that the Dawg is from the 80's and the Gilchrist is less than 10 years old, and if it has not been played maybe I should consider it almost brand new.

It shipped with lighter strings than I play. So, I will put some J74's on it and see what happens.

Wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience - buying a collector's mando that has never been opened up.

Shoot an email to the man, see what he says.

[Willie Poole]

I know two people that have Gils and neither one was/is happy with what they have, not up to what they hoped they would be but I can`t say if they needed a set up or what they expected from a mandolin, I will say that neither one of them did much for me either but I have heard other Gils that knocked my socks off, so I guess even the best makers can make some that don`t live up to what their reputations is....I would like to have one of those Gils just to see if I could get it to sound better...

Willie

[Mandobar]

I have heard this from a few folks, and I have to admit that this is one of the reasons that I can never get myself to write that check.

[Perry]

I have a 2004 Model 5 X Braced...it was great right out of the case but it was a bit tight....now it sounds fantastic even if dormant for several months BUT when I whomp on it for 60 or so minutes it becomes a raging beast......or a seductive siren. So it takes little naps in between work sessions.

When I hit the high E string up around the 12th fret it can sound like a grand piano...

Steve included very specific parameters for proper set up. I have attached a scanned copy.

J74's at least.....lights uh no....

I have a 2011 Kimble A5 that has become something really special in the last 7 or so months.
Mike Compton has mentioned how his "Gil 5" changed after many years and much playing. He referred to it as the "plates" shifting.

[Mandobar]

Matt Flinner says the same about his, and it too is x-braced.

[AlanN]

Steve included very specific parameters for proper set up. I have attached a scanned copy.

Excellent, Perry. Was this excerpted from Steve's well-crafted schema book he did some years ago? I have that somewhere...

[Perry]

No Alan just a little four panel on heavy stock that looks like Steve printed himself...still have my Gil pick glued to the front

[Denman John]

I hope everything works out for the OP. I assume from the outline given, he didn't have a chance to play it before parting with his money. Although I have done it in the past, I hope that I don't ever have to buy another instrument before being able to play it first ~ especially if it a fairly expensive one. With that said, sometimes you get lucky when your roll the dice.

[sgrexa]

Gil is one of the most foremost experts on Loars in the world. He has studied more than most, and from what you describe it sounds like it is operating as designed. Bass is not the strong point, but as others have pointed out, this will develop. Midrange cut is what he likely intended. Maybe Gil is not your cup of tea? There are many, many builders that design bass heavy mandolins, and this is a sound that I too enjoy from time to time but when it comes down to hard driving BG, I'll take that Loar / Gil midrange cut any day.

Sean

[barry]

Is it the '06 Model 5 that recently sold from Carter's? A friend of mine went on a mandolin tasting through Nashville a couple of months ago and proclaimed that one "best in show". He mentioned that it had great tone and playability, but was not particularly loud. Are we discussing the same instrument?

[DataNick]

I empathize with the OP and sincerely hope he gets the tonal qualities out of his new Gil that he expects. One of the best mandolins for my tonal palette that I've ever heard was a Gil. I've played 2 Gils; one was OK (to me), the other one was a really good mandolin, like my F5L, but not necessarily "better". Personally speaking, I would not buy the "uber" priced mandos (Gil, Dude, Nugget, Monteleone, etc) looking to get that "uber" toned-mando monster. If I had the capital, I would buy a mandolin like that for primarily the collectibility characteristics as opposed to tonal qualities. If I'm looking for the ultimate tone monster to my ears, then I really believe you have to get out there and play them; or have them shipped for trial purposes. You just never know from mandolin to mandolin or within & without brands, how a mandolin is going to "speak" to you. It is well documented on this site that what speaks to each of us is different, and the "one" may not be as expensive as the "uber" mandos...

All of that being said, here's hoping that the OP's mando just simply needs a Gil-specific set-up and playing-in!

[allenhopkins]

There's a certain risk buying an instrument in the hope it'll sound better as time goes on, and you play it more.

Somewhat similar to starting a committed relationship in hopes that the other party will "change and grow."

Not sayin' that what you hear on Day #1 is what you'll get forever, but every piece of wood is just a little bit different. One can generalize about any brand or builder's overall sound, but you're never guaranteed that any particular instrument will necessarily sound exactly that way.

So, better to be satisfied on Day #1, rather than expecting that on Day #1 + N, you'll get the sound you want -- and, apparently, expect.

[Perry]

Not that anyone is saying specifically so but I find it highly unlikely that Mr. Gilchrist built "a dog". Especially a 2006. I betcha it's a combination of set-up, light strings, little break in time and as Sean pointed out perhaps a misunderstanding of what a Gil is supposed to sound like. Personally I think that some builders voice their mandolins with too much low end. An open low G string is still pretty up there in register as far as string instruments go.

[fatt-dad]

put some real strings on it. Drive it with a thick pick - maybe try different points on the thick pick for variety.

Let your ear acclimate to the new sound.

(I don't really believe in the voodoo of, "Opening up." I believe it takes your ear a bit of time to sensitize to the new intrument. I also believe it takes time to know what a new instrument can/cannot do.)

Then again, it could be a dog. . . ?. . . !

f-d

[JAK]

If you can play/compare it to some other Gils you will get a better perspective of what you have, or don't have....

[DataNick]

Not that anyone is saying specifically so but I find it highly unlikely that Mr. Gilchrist built "a dog". Especially a 2006. I betcha it's a combination of set-up, light strings, little break in time and as Sean pointed out perhaps a misunderstanding of what a Gil is supposed to sound like. Personally I think that some builders voice their mandolins with too much low end. An open low G string is still pretty up there in register as far as string instruments go.

I think the scenario being played out here is after spending >$20K on an instrument, you expect it to be at that price the absolute monster of all tone monsters, volume, and playability. NO luthier can produce the EXACT same results in an instrument every time out because of the nature of human frailty and differences in wood. I think the better luthiers reduce process variation to the point where they produce a consistent product, but consistency doesn't mean every one is the same; just a consistency to the build, tonal characteristics, etc. And when you add in temperature variations, set-up nuances, etc, it just makes it even more tricky. This fact however does not temper our expectations that if I pay a certain level of $$, then it should sound and play like gold...I even tend to think that way before I catch myself and realize it's a fool's errand to think so!

I have played Nuggets, Gils, and Master Models that were by no means "dogs", but they weren't the end of the rainbow either, nor would I have taken any in a straight up swap for my F5L, and as I remarked to a couple of mando friends after taste testing those mandos, "if I would have just forked over $20K for that, Id be bummed!"...so in risk of sounding like a broken record, you really do just have to play'em to find your rainbow's end.

As I say in my signature line: "Mandolin brands are a guide, not gospel!"

[Hendrik Ahrend]

Steve Gilchrist (in his manual) suggests 1.5 mms string action in the clear at the 12th fret. Seems a bit low to me; just saying.