Left hand arthritis

[Ken]

So for the last couple months I've been experiencing pain in my left hand at the base of my thumb and it is having a negative impact on my playing. Finally saw a hand doctor yesterday who agreed that yes it is arthritis, not advanced enough to operate, here is a steroid shot. Still waiting to see what effect the shot has. Anyone else out there with this issue, any tips or ideas in order to keep playing as well as possible?

I can play leads pretty much ok, the real pain comes when I am playing rhythm. I can simplify chords, play two and three note chops and that helps, but I play a lot of jazz and kind of pride myself on my jazz chords and some of those are painful.

Any suggestions appreciated.
Ken

[Willie Poole]

Ken, I have the same problem so I did as you suggested and make the partial chords, I don`t have that good chop but at least I can still do a decent job playing bluegrass...It is just something we have to live with...I had to give up playing guitar altogether, couldn`t make the C chord with out much pain...

Good luck, if you do find something that helps please let me/us know and it will be a big help...

Willie

[Jack Roberts]

Sorry to hear about it, Ken. I don't have arthritis, but did have a bout of pain in right hand index finger a while back, so much so I went to the doctor, who suggested tendinitis rather than arthritis. I gave up mandolin for several months (fiddle didn't bother it) and NSAIDs helped. After a while I was able to start playing again.
(I am not a doctor) I'm sure you've thought of this, but maybe you can start developing a new style. Take up Bach, for example, who can be very demanding, but doesn't require the jazz chord stress on the left hand. Since the cartilage is damaged by stress, taking up a new genre that doesn't stress the joints as much may allow you some relief long enough for you to gain some remission then move back to the jazz playing.
But what do I know. Good luck and enjoy!

[PlaneSimple]

About five years ago I had to quit a great band (bass) as the pain in the back of my left hand was immense. Doctor said, "Carpal Tunnel!".. however I knew that the pain coincided with a tingling sensation in the middle of my back, the doctor dismissed this as unrelated.
So for $150 I bought a pull up bar and gravity boots.. used it a few times. Pain gone. The pain was essentially a phantom pain caused by a pinched nerve in the back, tricking the brain into feeling it as a hand pain. I think this is quite common. I quickly got back behind the bass.

However .. I share your misery as recent damage in June (from work) to the tendons of my left thumb have derailed my music life, complicated signing to my wife (she's deaf), and put me on short term disability from work.. possibly long term. I have turned down bass jobs from two national acts.. and a great job offer for my work in the stone business.
"De Quervain's Tendonitis". A bad thing.. intense pain at base of thumb and wrist and a popping sensation. Back in June I could not touch thumb to fingers without grinding sensation in tendons and INTENSE pain.. so it has plateaued to predictable stabs of pain.

Another thing.. sometimes wearing a watch on your left while you play will create problems for your wrist/thumb area.

I sincerely wish you well. People in general do not understand how devastating it is to lose the ability to "play" music.

[notepicker]

Keep the faith. I suffer moderate/severe rheumatiod arthritis and osteo arthritis. My playing as well as most other activities were shut down for almost a year. My doctor recommended a rheumatologist who now has me playing and living an almost normal life again. Be careful of the steroid shots and pills. They are dangerous and temporary at best. If conditions re-appear see a rheumatologist instead of an M.D.

[MysTiK PiKn]

I laid off mando for a week - not long enough. Laid off for more than 2 weeks - played last night for 1/2 hour. Played simple stuff - not bad. I think a lot has to with playing position and hyper-extension and repetitive strain. Maybe diet related, and maybe general physical condition. (Playing mando is not good exercise.)
I don't know if I will keep my mando or sell.
I think physical exercise can help with overall body fitness and health. I think I ran myself down into a low place.
I tend to think these various diagnoses, are all about the same thing. Just the labels are different.
For now, I am not hurting myself. I play guitar with no pain; but I notice my absence from guitar, due to mando, has rendered me likely vulnerable on guitar as well. Regular easy playing seems to help with fitness of hands generally. But I need to watch nutrition and rebuild overall physical state. I need to do more than think about doing.
Beware of steroid dependency - same w painkillers. You need to know what hurts.
I bought a dobro - can't play it - but it's fun trying. And not straining anything.
I think I am getting old. I don't like it. I think most of this is optional and can be controlled via nutrition and exercise and activity generally.
I retired recently. I thought I had to do nothing. Now I see I have a different kind of work to do, looking after me. This is quite strange. I have always been pretty healthy; now it's an effort that must be made - more activity.
Use all available resources. Thanks for sharing. This kind of topic has been popping up a lot lately - we need more. Bring it on.

[Jack Roberts]

.... People in general do not understand how devastating it is to lose the ability to "play" music.

I should add that during the time I couldn't play mandolin, I took up theremin: an instrument that just requires the careful placement and movement of the hands in space. It is a devilishly difficult instrument to play, and I finally gave it to my niece after I recovered enough to play mandolin again. But I couldn't go without playing some music every day.

Music is part of what makes us human.

[mandroid]

I have a sharp Pain in my left index finger tendon, extended, but its apparently to be really adapted
to being shortened to curl up to get to the 1st & 2nd fret notes.

different issues with my Right Index finger after all those years curling it up
holding my pick under the Thumb pressure .

[pheffernan]

Any suggestions appreciated.

There are very few problems that can't be fixed by purchasing another mandolin. In this case, I would examine the playability features of your current instrument, particularly the neck profile, to see if they are the culprit. Sure, it could be a result of posture and technique, but fixing them isn't nearly as fun as buying a Heiden.

[Timbofood]

Neck profile is not an unreasonable thought, I don't have that particular malady but, I have had trigger finger problems in my right hand which have mostly gone away with my simply massaging the hand. Interesting thing though, I was at the orthopedic surgeon with my wife for something else and the steroid shot was brought up as a possible aid for her. He said it could last six hours, six months or, clear it up totally. So, it's still just practicing medicine.
Can you borrow a different mandolin for a few weeks form someone and see if the neck profile change helps? Seems least "invasive" and much more fun.

[T.D.Nydn]

I feel for all of you guys .ive had to stop playing everything in the past several times around,and then relearn everything all over again,on four instruments.because of tendinitis in my forearms,the last time ,I had it in both forearms,so bad I couldn't use the t.v. Remote.now I also have an arthritic right pinkie finger that's always killing me.its all bent out of shape,looks like someone else's finger.and on top of it all ,I have what's called "marfans syndrome",,among other things my fingers bend all funny and my thumbs go out of whack all crazy on me ,usually at the worst times.my joints and ligaments aren't like a normal persons and they always are sore and aching.ive had maybe like 6 days in my life that were pain free.ive never taken any meds or drugs,and never will....good luck and you do the best you can,,,,ted

[slk]

I can tell you what helped me. Take a tablespoon of apple cider vinegar every day. You can dilute it with water, or just gulp down the spoonful and drink water afterwards. I usually put some in my coffee cup in the morning and gulp it down then go with the coffee right behind and am good to go. Had arthritis for years in my thumb joint. Since taking the app cider it has completely gone away.

Steve

[darylcrisp]

i have probably the same condition you have. arthritis tends to attack the base of the thumb joints-i assume due to our overuse thru our lifetimes of that digit. you will typically have a bulge or knot sticking out at the thumb base-that area will be very sore if you even push it, let alone knock or ding it. the joint space inside narrows tremendously, there are times the thumb feels as though it is locked and you move it around and hear a click and it frees up. it is definitely harder to use the thumb in fretting.

as another reply mentioned, be careful of the steroid injections-read up on it. repeated injections have some issues(research what it does to the bone, the connective tissue) and its a temporary pain relief.

what i found worked for me, and quickly, was acupuncture. i had lived with the condition for years. mine came from extensive whitewater kayaking. my left thumb was useless and very painful most times. the first treatment of acupuncture relieved the pain, the thumb worked better and it only improved from there. it will always be there but there can be ways to work around it and live without the pain hopefully, and improve the use and function of it-even though its "damaged".

so what i did:

1)acupuncture
2)change your lifestyle-food you eat-research it. red sour cherries will help tremendously with inflammation. get rid of white sugar as much as possible.
3)as Pat mentioned, you may need to really work on how the instrument fits you-play as many different neck profiles as you can to see if any help. and you may need to change your technique a little so the thumb is not brought into play as much.
4)lighter gauge strings and as low a setup as possible. you might loose some volume, but gain pain free and longer playing.

hope this helps
d

[PlaneSimple]

regarding Apple Cider Vinegar.. I have read that the raw unfiltered kind (available in our local chain grocery) has the most benefit.. I drink it in a big stein of ice water. It is also a good way to cut back on beer.. especially since I am off work for this hand injury.
Misery loves company.. keep those stories coming. This is important stuff !!

[Al Trujillo]

I'm a newbie to the mandolin...bought my first one earlier this year and have been having a blast with it. I also suffer from arthritis in my fingers - particularly in my thumbs. What I'm going to say here may or may not be well received....a friend of mine suggested a salve made from cannabis oil. I live here in Colorado where MJ is now legal for recreation and medicinal purposes. I'm not a fan of legalization for recreation and was surprised when our state voted in favor to allow for sales. It is what it is I guess.

So back to my story: my friend (who didn't support passing legislation either) was curious and researched the medicinal salve that his sister was singing the praises for the relief of arthritis associated pain. Okay, so I bought into his story and picked up a small jar of the salve. Since I started using it the pain in my thumb joint has; though not completely dissipated, has lessened to the point that I can still try to play (remember, I'm a newbie!) my mandolin. The stuff stinks, but it doesn't have the chemicals in it that create the MJ buzz. I wouldn't use it if it did.

Anyway, here is another option. Best of luck to you!

[Tailgate]

Hey Ken, is the pain at the base of your thumb on your hand or where the thumb / pad on your hand meets the wrist? I've been having a burning type of pain on the inside of my left wrist just below the thumb, but haven't been able to get a diagnosis. It feels like a tendon issue, but hasn't been diagnosed as such. So far I've seen my family doc, gone for x-rays and ultrasound and am waiting to see a nerve and muscle specialist in a couple months.

The worst part is that it seems to have started as a result of physiotherapy that I was doing for the joints in my index finger.

[Randi Gormley]

I have osteoarthritis in my left thumb base -- for a while I was getting shooting pains up my arm when I played. My doctor suggested aspirin with an anti-inflammatory (there's an OTC one but my mind has blanked on it) for immediate relief. I also modified my practice routine. I stopped practicing every day, for one thing, and only played every other day. And I had to change instruments -- I can no longer fret my wider-necked instruments, I've had to go to very narrow necks. I've been lucky -- the worst of the problem has gone away with rest and changing instruments. It's still there, but as long as I don't aggravate the area by overplaying or playing my wider-necked instruments, I'm good. The same can be said for the carpal tunnel syndrome that's also affected my left hand. Rest from what causes the stress is probably the cheapest thing you can do. I've also been able to play my recorders or flute without problems since the handgrip is completely different.

I have an advantage in that I don't chord, I play single-note melody (or the occasional double-stop) usually, since I play classical or ITM. Someone suggested you might try a different genre until your hand heals a bit -- that might be the way to go. You can increase your musical abilities while giving your hand a break and then get back to it when things ease up.

[choctaw61]

+1 on a healthy diet. We poison our bodies everyday with some of the garbage we eat and drink. U would be amazed at the difference a lil tweaking of Ur diet would make in ur body. Sugar,red meat, to much to mention all contribute to arthritis.U don't have to do without these things just limit what u put in ur body.Do a lil research u will b glad u did.Apple cider vinegar is great.Use honey instead of sugar. Limit red meat and fried foods.It may not stop all the symptoms but u will notice a drastic improvement.I know what it's like to suffer with arthritis to the point u cant even walk.hope u get better

[MysTiK PiKn]

The playing I tried yesterday was mostly single-note. It's some chords that really get me, esp. the G or D chopchords - that stretch, with a bad playing position, or a bad hold on the mando, is the worst for me. It's like I spread my hand to the max, and then tense and pounce on the chord - the stretch I believe is causing hypertension. And my mando is a skinny necked V profile. My guitar is older Gibson C-neck, more like a telephone pole I don't seem to have problems with that, generally speaking. So I would tend to consider a wider neck. I need to be very careful now; I feel like I'm falling apart - this is not good. Lately, been eating better, and vitamin/mineral combos.

A few months back I read up on some medicinal MJ oils - there are a lot of amazing claims being made - and there are several different oils that can be extracted - some fancy chemistry involved - and this is NOT about getting high; it's definitely medicinal. A relative has a legal prescription. It's expensive. And he has a friend prepare the oil for him. He says it helps with some kind of repetitive strain injury he has in his legs/knees - he was a carpet installer. It's pretty funny when he talks about it; nobody knows what to say. There's nothing to say really; the world keeps changing. It might be a while for the stigma to disappear. One of the claims I saw was rapid results re certain cancers.

My problems w playing also show up in some other activities like chainsaw, splitting wood, machine operation - basically tension combined with vibration and repetitive actions. Much like mandolin but on a different scale - sounds musical but it's still pain. Last year I hit chainsaw "whitefinger". It was 20 yrs ago I was attacked by steering wheel vibration on a tractor, which led to a diagnosis of repetitive strain. That was bad - I could only sit and try to find a comfy position, and it still hurt regardless. Strange that physical activity after a rest period, actually helped with that - that was non-mechanized work. I got so I could tell that if I didn't approach (example) lifting properly, that I would hurt myself. So with care, I could do anything. The doctor at that time told me it would never completely go away, and I would have to minimize similar damaging activity. I had a good run going before I took up mandolin. Sometimes I think if I approached it more slowly, it would allow me more time to make needed adjustments. but I kinda flew into it quickly, with a guitar approach = not recommended - the smaller instrument changes all the angles, all the approach, all the everything - it's just not a guitar. I find posture and approach with care, help, alot. But it's going to be a while; maybe a long while.
Someone mentioned OTC over the counter NSAID = "Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug". Available any pharmacy, they can show you.

[Jess L.]

There are very few problems that can't be fixed by purchasing another mandolin.

I do most of my practicing on an electric instrument with super-lightweight single strings and super-low action (you can have really low action on an electric and still not get any buzzing strings because you don't need to thrash it to get more volume, just play lightly and turn up the amp's volume knob even if you practice using headphones like I do), the combination of those things requires much less pressure to hold the strings down and I find it to be a lot easier on arthritis. Electric instruments have been a godsend for me, even though at first I felt like I'd sold out to normalcy or something, by "going electric", but eventually I got over it and now I can enjoy electric instruments as just another instrument, a thing that makes sound that you can tailor to whatever sound you wish.

I only use the acoustic stuff for some recordings or where electric isn't allowed... hard to believe that after over 80 years (1930s-2015, did I do my math right? ) electric isn't considered 'traditional' yet, in some genres, but that's another topic.

Also, as others have mentioned, it helps to play mostly single-note stuff, or two-note 'chords' rather than full chords.

[Ken]

Hey Ken, is the pain at the base of your thumb on your hand or where the thumb / pad on your hand meets the wrist?

Hi Tailgate, my pain is where the very base of the thumb meets the wrist. Thank you all for your suggestions and comments. A lot of good ideas for me to try. Definitely will try the apple cider vinegar. Also heard that yellow raisins soaked in gin helps with arthritis. That could be fun.
Ken

[Jeff Hildreth]

I have severe arthritis in my left wrist area. This a result of being hit by a car back in 1985.

The wrist was shattered and the head of the ulna were broken off and then each piece broken in half.
A couple operations, steel pins, etc. It took a year to be able to play again. Ok but not the same for the next 29 years.

Fast foward to last Novemeber.

Pain was steadily increasing in my left wrist and base of thumb anbd next joint up.
Progressed over a few motnhs to the point where the pain on a 10 point scale was a constant 3 with spikes to ten that had me collapsing and dropping to the floor. I am extremely pain tolerant. So this was serious.
In addition to the pain, mobility was about 50% as was strength.. and I have very strong hands.

I went to the local hand guy.. neither his staff nor he and I bonded. But that is another story. I was told he was "the guy" so went with the program.

He took xrays and then gave the following report and suggested a course of treatment in order to address pain , lack of mobility and loss of strength.

I have NO cartilage between 5 major bone contacts.. and that's what I have bone to bone contact.
Severe arthritis in base of thumb and next joint up , and throughout the wrist area.

Options:

1. Cortisone shots.. big doses initially.

2. Operation to fuse five bones.. which he said may that is "may" relieve the pain, but would result in a further 50% loss of mobility and strength .

3. Live with it.

I chose option 1. which did absolutely nothing except cause further pain.
I am now adopting plan 3.... Live with it.

However, considering his "skills" I am seeking a second and possibly a third opinion. First locally with another hand guy and if that is not successful I will go to the University Medical Center in Portland Oregon.

My fingers work well.. what does not work is rotating the wrist to grab the neck, then add the thumb pressure required to keep the instrument in place..not a good idea. The pain is an indicator of further damage.

My option to continue to play stringed instruments is to go back to the TIFKAD. No reversed wrist rotation required.

Meantime I continue to play button accordeons but refrain from playing the bass.

Best of luck to you..

BTW I refuse to take drugs for the pain. I don't do drugs except in a life or death situation .. and I've been there.

[Timbofood]

A friend of mine says six stalks of celery a day is another non drug solution.
I am not terribly fond of celery and would find six stalks almost impossible to eat in a day.
I feel truly blessed to not have much problem with "Uncle Arthir"....yet!

[Purdy Bear]

How about changing the position you play entirely. I've seen a lot of stringed instruments placed on their backs and then hammers or the like used to get the sounds, a bit like a dulcimer. I've seen Ukuleles played with combs and the like. I think the answer is to think outside the box, just because tradition says it needs to be this way doesn't mean it can't be played that way.

[MysTiK PiKn]

How about changing the position you play entirely. I've seen a lot of stringed instruments placed on their backs and then hammers or the like used to get the sounds, a bit like a dulcimer. I've seen Ukuleles played with combs and the like. I think the answer is to think outside the box, just because tradition says it needs to be this way doesn't mean it can't be played that way.

Sounds almost like my dobro excursion. It's laid across my lap, right hand finger picks, and slip/slop/slide on the left hand - esp. the way I play it. I do 10 min per day just trying to make some nice sound. And every day, I discover something new. I got into dobro from listening to Jami Lynn's "Fall Is A Good Time to Die" album - her dobro guy is amazing - and I want to do that. Learning setup on dobro is another world too. But the point is that dobro is very gentle, non-invasive, non-demanding, no pain. Pure fun and weird noises, for now - can be loud, too. Mine's a squareneck dobro - it can't be played like a guitar. (but 'roundneck' dobros are guitar position, either fingering or slide). Mastering slide is quite a challenge; but a gentle one. Amusing and challenging. I could grow olde with this. It seems the squareneck dobro is a bluegrass instrument; would also go folk, blues, or country, and who knows what else. Anyway, it's an alternative. There's a slide-pedal-steel guy not too far from me; I gotta meet him sometime.