how long should i practice?

[Manfred Hacker]

hi I have been playing the mandolin for about 3 months. I practice about a hour a day is this enough to get good.

Has anyone asked yet how old you are?
That would be an important factor, IMHO

[Petrus]

quoting just the part you wish to address is sufficient.

This!

If we change the last word in this sentence "I practice about a hour a day is this enough to get good" to "better," I believe it would be more in the spirit of what the OP is looking to find. And avoid an esoteric discussion that the OP might find off-putting. And we don't want that, do we, but rather want to be encouraging as possible.

You gotta get better before you can get good. (Hmm, there's a sig-worthy line.)

I think all the posts look encouraging imo. You never know what the OP might find useful so it's best to throw a lot of wet spaghetti at the wall and see which strands stick, and which just slide down the wall to the floor. (I've tried it.) Also we have to realize other people besides the OP are reading the thread and might be inspired by something else they read.

[dwc]

Who cares?

I do. What do we do here if not discuss how to more thoroughly enjoy the mandolin and mandolin family instruments? For some of us, that manifests in discussions about the minutia of old, expensive mandolins. For others, it is an eternal quest for greater proficiency on our chosen instrument. I fall into the later category. If someone has strong evidence that average musicians (a category into which I am almost certain most of us fall) cannot progress beyond a certain point, then it seems to me that the subject (and the citation) would be entirely germane to our discussion.

But then if you don't think it is important, and you think it is important to call me out on my post, then clearly the discussion of how and to what degree a musician may improve is an inappropriate discussion to have on a forum devoted to a musical instrument.

[Explorer]

how long should I practice?

I have been playing the mandolin for about 3 months. I practice about a hour a day. Is this enough to get good?

It could be enough, if you're practicing things which will make you a good player.

It's hard to gauge how much time any given skill should be practiced at a stretch. As an example of how that might not be the right question, how many specific wipes does it take with bathroom tissue? How long in minutes and seconds? I prefer to gauge that kind of task as a "do the task until it's done" thing. (Some might disagree, which is mildly humorous.)

I'd say, practice the skills which will help you achieve your long term goals, and only practice them up to the speed which pushes your skill set, but not to the point where you're practicing making a mistake.

I might work on skills like fingering drills for Four Finger Closed Position, working with a metronome to know that my timing isn't drifting. I would start at a speed where i know my fingering is correct. I will increase the speed bit by bit, and then stop once I start making mistakes due to the speed being too much. If I'm making mistakes early, I will do slow drills so that the correct finger positioning is ingrained in my muscle memory for next time.

Then I'll move onto chord changes for upcoming pieces.

And then I might work gypsy jazz phrases.

For me, practice is about working and expanding the skill set. Playing for fun happens, but is for a different reason.

You've been playing for three months? Then you're likely learning a few tunes and chord progressions. Assuming that half an hour of that daily hour is just playing for fun, you're doing okay.

----

My biggest piece of advice is, don't repeat mistakes to the point where they become habit. I have practiced some things extremely slowly for the sake of perfecting a six note run in the middle, because that run needed a tricky fingering job for a smooth legato. One can recognize when a beginner hits those difficult phrases, when they struggle and the tempo drops down to almost nothing. That's one of the things practice eliminates.

One more thing, likely to make me unpopular: I will work phrases and scales slowly while watching a movie at home, or just work the pompe rhythm and progessions. I can follow the metronome and get time in on the skills I already have but want to speed up.

Whatever path you choose to become a better player, good luck!

[Gary Leonard]

Practice scales, strumming, anything repetitive until your significant other says "Honey, I love you dearly, and love to hear you play mandolin. But if you don't play something else, I will leave you." Then that is long enough.

Regarding is that enough to get good, who knows. Let us know when you get good!

Gary

[Emmett Marshall]

I've been practicing about 6 to 8 hours a week on average which sometimes seems like too much to me. I am not someone who watches the clock unless I am afraid of making myself late for work or an appointment. I haven't been playing long - just a few years, but I do know that I keep improving at this pace. I once had a luthier tell me that if I only practiced 30 minutes a day, I would always suck. I am not sure that I agree with him. Everything is relative and everyone is different. I've taken a few days off here and there, and I only regressed in the sense that I forgot some things I was recently working on, but I didn't regress in playing skills. I worry more about overdoing it than underdoing it and giving myself headaches or putting pressure on myself instead of having fun on this journey.

[Pete Martin]

If anyone decides to up their practice time by a significant amount, remember that is a very typical way for overuse injuries to come on. Up 10 minutes for about 4 days, then do the same if nothing shows up.

[DavidKOS]

The experiment I would like to see run is, take someone with average or even below average "talent" and see what happens if they practice efficiently and diligently for thousands of hours. How good could they become?

That's me...average talent, lots of practice time...I became a professional musician.

[sblock]

That's me...average talent, lots of practice time...I became a professional musician.

As the saying goes, "the plural of 'anecdote' is not data." Yes, you may be a professional musician (and many of us are professional or semi-professional or "performing amateurs" here on the MC), but that does not equate to instrumental virtuosity. And NO ONE, least of all me, is saying one can't get better with practice! On the contrary!! Yes, we can all improve -- to the limits of of capabilities. Furthermore, we all tend to improve at rates that are a bit different, but these rates are NOT wholly set by the type, duration, or efficiency of the practice. So-called "directed practice" methods in music have been shown -- in actual scientific studies, based on actual data and not anecdote -- to contribute to perhaps ~20% of the outcome. All those other factors, things like hand coordination, musical aptitude, personality traits, intelligence, musical 'ear', musical environment (current and past exposure), and more, contribute the lion's share. So yes, the experiment has already been done (more than once, in fact) and the results are in.

By all means, practice and improve. And gain the maximum enjoyment from your playing, whatever you do! That's the most important of all. It's all about the journey, anyway. But let's not discount musical talent (or musical aptitude, or musical intelligence, call it what you like) as a contributing factor. It's a bigger factor than practice for most individuals in the outcome. And provably so. We weren't all cut out to be top-level musicians, any more than we were all cut out to be Olympic athletes. Training is worthwhile and pays off. It gets you to your full potential. But that potential is not identical for all "normal" people.

[journeybear]

I don't know what the statistics are regarding the interplay between learned ability and natural talent - if that's even quantifiable - and I'm sure interpretations of such data vary wildly. I think practice will help a lot with technique, the physical aspects of playing, and natural talent, if there is any, will have a chance to develop through this - and through reaction to observations during this.

Knowing only what I've learned from my own experiences, I can't say for sure how much what I've accomplished has come from any sort of natural talent I may have had to begin with, ability I've gained from practicing, or learning how to stay the hell out of my own way and let whatever talent I may have find its way out of my natural shyness. Or, naturally, some combination of these factors. At the root of it all, for me, is that I have a great love of music, and whether or not I have any real talent (an esoteric question which I feel is pointless to discuss), I have devoted a lot of time and effort to playing an instrument which I have learned to operate in some reasonable fashion, and which allows me to interpret my musical thoughts and translate them into actual music - my reality interface.

There've been a lot of good suggestions of practical aspects of playing that the OP - or anyone, really - can apply himself to and learn from and improve. I think the OP should be able to get quite a good bit better as a result. Whether he ever gets good is a more subjective determination. I've often said, and I will do so again, that I've been playing for 47 years now, and I figure if I keep at it, I'll get good someday.

[Tobin]

I have to chuckle when I see statistics and studies on this sort of thing. Human learning is so chock-full of variables that there's simply no way to arrive at an answer. There's no magical number of hours that will work for everyone. There's no daily regimen that will work for everyone.

This may not be helpful at all, but you're going to have to figure out what's right for you. Based on your existing knowledge of music, your natural motor skills, your natural musical ability, your creativity, your enthusiasm, and the room you have in your life for devoting to the mandolin, will all come together in a particular way that no one can predict or control except for yourself.

But I think we can all agree that the more you practice, the more you play and get familiar with your instrument, the more exposure you get to playing with others, and the more you learn, the better you will become. So play the durn thing as much as you can (short of injuring yourself or letting the rest of your life fall into chaos).

[Emmett Marshall]

Not quite on topic here, but addressing talent as it pertains to progress. As a former sax player, I remember many instances when a player could play extremely well from a "technical" perspective, yet the music had no "soul." Technically awesome, but dead nevertheless. You didn't feel squat, emotionally, even though he/she would be as technically perfect as any person might hope to get. The music just didn't take you anywhere - except perhaps a typewriter factory? I think this is where the talent or "giftedness" comes in. On the other hand, I've heard artists whose playing might be considered sloppy, or technically lacking - like "Kenny G." with his sideways embrouchure, (the sax snobs would call this a serious, limiting factor) who could play 12 notes and touch people to the heart with them. I think natural talent, the ability to express oneself through the instrument, and the enjoyment of playing/practicing far outweigh the need to play an instrument as perfectly as possible in terms of a student's potential for making great music in the shortest time possible. People like Dawg and Thile seem to enjoy the best of both worlds - talent and skill

[SincereCorgi]

If anyone decides to up their practice time by a significant amount, remember that is a very typical way for overuse injuries to come on. Up 10 minutes for about 4 days, then do the same if nothing shows up.

Totally agree with Pete on this. Also, for somebody who's still in the novice phase, blocking off a huge amount of daily time is a good way to get burned out. It's better for a beginner to do a consistent 30-45 minutes daily than struggle against heroic amounts of practice, most of which have little benefit.

[DataNick]

To the OP if you're still reading: if you've been playing for 3 months, I'm assuming you're a "beginner" of sorts. I think there's a threshold between practicing so that you can play an instrument; then playing your instrument to maintain, improve, and learn new techniques/skills. I think you'll find that more time invested properly will get you to your goals quicker, and only you can know what your goals are ("good" is a little general) and how much time you have available to accomplish them.

It took me about 2 years of an average of 1hr/day to cross the threshold I refer to. I have a daily goal of 3 hours/day in a perfect world. I usually get in 2 hours per day, and quite frankly 1 hour just gets me back to a level of maintenance. I don't see improvement gains generally until I'm in the 2 hour range of practicing...

John Moore made a great statement at a workshop he taught with Adam Steffey at Summergrass: "Practice doesn't make perfect, but practice makes permanent!"

[OldGus]

Until you get what you're after, usually comfort then proficiency.

[Explorer]

Should we take the OP's energetic responses to the advice so far as indicative of his energy level in practicing?

[Coffee Guy]

I don't like the word practice, thats like work! I say play until you don't want to anymore!

[DavidKOS]

As the saying goes, "the plural of 'anecdote' is not data." Yes, you may be a professional musician (and many of us are professional or semi-professional or "performing amateurs" here on the MC), but that does not equate to instrumental virtuosity. And NO ONE, least of all me, is saying one can't get better with practice!

Just being a pro musician (i.e., getting paid) is not related to virtuosity per se.

And I'm STILL practicing.

[Robert B]

The only talent is perseverance. I had no musical aptitude when I picked up a guitar at age 13. I picked up my instrument regularly, and with a passion to learn. Your ability increases in direct relation to the amount of time spent playing with intent.

[Jess L.]

Should we take the OP's energetic responses to the advice so far as indicative of his energy level in practicing?

Not necessarily... please understand that I don't mean to be argumentative or anything, but some people don't go on the internet every day.

Me for example, sometimes I forget to even check email for days at a time, or I'm busy with other stuff, sometimes even busy with playing music. Could be a variety of reasons why a person might go for a day-and-a-half or two days or whatever it's been (not a very long time, really) without responding to a post.

What everyone has written already, covers a lot of ground. I dunno but if it were me, I'd have to read everything and then let it sink in for a day or two before the info digested enough to where I'd be comfortable writing a reply.

Somewhat of an aside, sometimes I think our modern society's time-frame expectations are a little too tight, like people who send a text-message and expect an instant reply or even a reply within a few hours - I have friends like that and I had to 'train' them to not expect instant anything unless it's an emergency, now they're ok with it - we have text 'conversations' that span a week, a more 'normal' person would have probably wrapped up that conversation in 30 minutes. But the communication is the same. Heck sometimes I don't even notice I have new texts until a day later anyway, I don't spend all my time looking at my phone or going online on the computer. For non-emergency or non-critical stuff, especially for complicated things or social stuff (where there's always an increased chance that I might inadvertently write something stupid that might get misinterpreted), or a question like what the OP asked where there are a whole bunch of replies with a bunch of different perspectives, I would have to read all the material first, think it over for a day or two to try to figure out exactly what people meant, then reply later.

I realize that's not the style nowadays, everything is so fast-paced. (Yes, I'm showing my age.)

I don't know how many other people out there think old-school like I do, aside from my relatives and family that is, probably not a majority by any stretch of the imagination, but it's something to consider.

Just sayin.'

[Jess L.]

hi I have been playing the mandolin for about 3 months. I practice about a hour a day is this enough to get good.

In addition to what everyone else has written, I'd like to say that some of my most rewarding practice is the short impromptu sessions that might be only a few minutes, like when I'm just heading out the door but then I spot one of my instruments and pick it up to play it for a few minutes before proceeding on with whatever I was doing. The nice thing about that, is that there is no expectation or trying to 'accomplish' anything, it's not a workout or exercise or anything, but I'm always surprised at how it seems to help my playing.

[Jess L.]

Practice scales, strumming, anything repetitive until your significant other says "Honey, I love you dearly, and love to hear you play mandolin. But if you don't play something else, I will leave you." Then that is long enough.

I side-stepped that li'l problem by doing most of my practicing with a solid-body electric instrument and headphones, the strings make almost no sound when attached to that big slab of solid wood, "no soundboard" equals "nearly silent". But I can hear it just fine through the headphones, I actually prefer that.

I'm a slow learner nowadays, on difficult tunes it takes me a lot repetition before I can play the tune at all, and even simple tunes benefit from repetition to develop variants and alternate ways of playing the tune. I very much enjoy being able to work the kinks out of a tune without having all my many mistakes glaringly obvious/audible to people nearby, especially people I care about. My wonderful significant other is too polite and gracious to complain, even when I'm playing acoustic which isn't often, but there are times when I want to play bagpipe tunes with a heavy-metal sound for a few hours (yeah even on mandolin), I haven't tried it through speakers recently but I doubt it would be appreciated after a couple hours (or sooner!), and this is especially where the headphones come in handy. People can't complain about my playing if they can't hear it.

[Bertram Henze]

Should we take the OP's energetic responses to the advice so far as indicative of his energy level in practicing?

The first post itself gives me the impression of someone expecting a quick and simple answer, like "yes" or "no", assuming that the question covers the whole topic of what it takes to get good (which it doesn't). There may be a certain dissapointment about the verbose answers.

I'll say: practice 1 hour and 2 minutes every day, and 1 hour and 15 minutes on a Sunday, and you'll get good at watching alarm clocks.

[Timbofood]

My Father used to tell this story:
"There was a man sitting on his porch playing his violin, playing the same note with each stroke (an F as I recall) day after day after day. Finally the mailman asked why he was playing the same note all the time? The fiddlers answer....
"All those other folks are looking for the spot, I found it!"

[DavidKOS]

My Father used to tell this story:
"There was a man sitting on his porch playing his violin, playing the same note with each stroke (an F as I recall) day after day after day. Finally the mailman asked why he was playing the same note all the time? The fiddlers answer....
"All those other folks are looking for the spot, I found it!"

I heard that same joke recast as a Mullah Nasruddin story....the mullah is playing robab, and playing the same note over and over....etc.