Celluloid Binding Supplier

**sunburst** · Apr-29-2005, 9:46pm

I thought it was ABS that I soaked in acetone for several days, perhaps it was vinyl.
Anyway, it didn't melt, just got kind of rubbery.

Weldon does seem to glue it better then Duco, but doesn't seem to melt it.

**Keith Newell** · Apr-29-2005, 10:11pm

I know for sure that acetone will melt/laminate ABS plastic. Weldon #2354 works great in laminating ABS. It is a pretty hot solvant (meaning it evaporates fairly fast) so it doesn't stick around to much to soften too deeply the ABS plastic in thin sections so I would imagine using Weldon #2354 to laminate and Weldon #16 to glue your binding to the instrument would work good.
I take Weldon #16 and cut it 50% with acetone and paint the freshly routed binding channel. The next day I glue my binding on with Weldon #16.
Just a thought.
Keith Newell
http://www.newellmandolins.com

**Hans** · Apr-30-2005, 6:35am

Ok, I ordered some ABS to try out. Full report next week.

**Desert Rose** · Apr-30-2005, 7:14am

At the price Tortis gets for pickguards you might as well put 24K gold on for binding, the cost of 3 by 5 foot sheet to make binding would break the bank

For reference a standard sheet of material used to slice binding in .060 of either tortise or ivoriod costs about $110 wholesale they get $45 for a pickguard blank

Scott

**Yonkle** · May-01-2005, 2:27pm

I don't get it. You have to get binding pretty hot for it to flame on! Seems like the Gas/Diesel in the shiping trucks would be 1000 times more of a threat! Someone tell me how a piece of binding in a box could catch on fire, without a fire first being outside the box. JD

**Desert Rose** · May-02-2005, 6:07am

Yonkle

Cellulose nitrate materials if over a certian weight or volume are so dangerous that the shippers must be licenced for explosives. Years ago when studying at McCabes they used to have a small wooden barrel of picks and people were welcome to help themselves. That barrel of picks about 16 inches high fit the requirement.

This material gasses off the solvents its made with for years. If you have a quantity of it the gassed off solvents if in a confined space like a shipping box are as good as a bomb and just as unstable

Scott

**Rave On** · May-02-2005, 9:11am

I bought a sheet of high quality tortise from Henry Stocek
about a year ago. Henry did the home work on authentic looking tortise nitrocellulose and had it made in Italy...There was an atricle about Henry in the Guild of American luthiers publication several years ago...I wonder if Henry is still in the luthier supply business...

**Darryl Wolfe** · May-02-2005, 9:18am

Thanks HANS, keep us posted

**Keith Newell** · May-03-2005, 11:21pm

I can see it now, a whole bunch of new instrument jokes.

How do you know when you played a really hot lick on stage?

When there are 2 pieces of your mandolin on the floor, a top and the back with the sides with neck attached in your hand...all with charred edges

**Michael Lewis** · May-04-2005, 12:47am

Well, it can be funny when it doesn't hapen to you.

I have repaired instruments that had some of their binding spontaneously combust. It makes a mess and can damage surrounding surfaces. This sort of occurence usually happens when left in a closed case for extended periods (years).

**Darryl Wolfe** · May-04-2005, 7:52am

Originally Posted by (Desert Rose @ April 30 2005, 08:14)

For reference a standard sheet of material used to slice binding in .060 of either tortise or ivoriod costs about $110 wholesale they get $45 for a pickguard blank

Scott

For more reference, my sheets of plastic have cost anywhere from 175-275 over the years. This is 0.125 tortoise. It is usually price commensurate with the thickness from there. Take in mind my supplier bought an entire brick which I assume to be 12-18" thick and it was $6000

I special ordered a sheet of 0.80 ivoroid/ 0.25 black/ 0.25 white from Delmar 10 years ago and it was about $250

**Darryl Wolfe** · May-04-2005, 7:57am

ps: #Rave-on mentions Italy....every sheet I have gotten has an Italian sticker on it with a company name and "Xelox" as the material. #I cant remember the name but it's one of those Marucella like words

**Jim Hilburn** · May-04-2005, 8:16am

Has Stew-Mac also discontinued all of the pickguards for acoustic and electric guitars and blank sheets? That's a lot of product to drop from your catalog.

**Darryl Wolfe** · May-04-2005, 2:38pm

Dad just got a new LMI catalog today. He says that for the first time, they specify what the materials are. He says the black-white stuff says "Black and white is made of vinyl"

**Hans** · May-04-2005, 3:16pm

Darryl, I can attest to that. Just sent back 48 strips. Duco or Weldon won't touch it.

**Saltgrass** · May-04-2005, 5:28pm

LMI did also specify that their ivoroid stuff is celluloid.

**dstretch** · May-04-2005, 6:34pm

I think the Martin Guitar 1833 shop sells celluloid binding.

**Dale Ludewig** · May-04-2005, 6:40pm

Yes, but I don't think LMI sells IBI in .090, which StewMac did and I use for body binding- even the headstock. Plus I don't think LMI's tortoise is celluloid.

As to someone's previous post that we're interested in this issue for personal reasons- that person was right on the button.

I wonder how many of the luthiers here might have custom orders swinging in the wind 'til this shortage/ problem/ is resolved? Anybody want to say? I can't help but think that SM is watching, (I'd hope) or someone like LMI, who could step in and up their inventory. I would think it would increase their orders for other stuff than binding by a significant percentage. Just thinking and hoping.

**Bill Snyder** · May-04-2005, 6:42pm

International Luthier Supplies binding does not say anything about being celluloid, but it does say it glues with Duco.

**Jim Hilburn** · May-04-2005, 6:47pm

Yeah, but no ivoroid. I have a Vitali's catalog from about '73 with all those inlays and same bindings.

**Jim Hilburn** · May-04-2005, 7:05pm

Allparts has tort.,ivoroid and blk. and whi. Doesn't say if its celluloid or not. No pre-laminates either.

**tope** · May-04-2005, 7:37pm

Is the LMI ivoroid the same as what StewMac used to carry?
Gary

**Chris Baird** · May-04-2005, 7:42pm

Here is LMI's most recent catalog. They seem to have celluloid. Only thing I don't see is the .030" w/b. They also sell glue to glue thier other bindings.

**Darryl Wolfe** · May-05-2005, 7:52am

Dad and I just bought a large quantity of the LMI Ivoroid and the Ivoroid/b/i...(just in case)

**Jim Hilburn** · May-05-2005, 8:30am

If LMI's I/B/I is indeed celluloid, I guess you could superglue a bottom strip of the vinyl b/w to it so you had the side lines and could still have the melt together nature at your joints.