Ridiculous US Postal charge !.

[Ivan Kelsall]

An e-mail friend of mine & a fellow UK Cafe member living overseas,decided he'd like some Black tuner buttons for his new KY mandolin. He sourced the buttons in the US
& requested a price. The price was $30.8 US for the buttons & $26.0 US for postage =
$56.8 US = £37 UK. Because the total is over our allowed duty limit,there would be 25%
duty to pay bringing the total to £46.25 UK = $71 US.
Even by current US postal charge standards,that seems way OTT to post 8 tiny items that could be posted in half a cigarette packet (for example),
Ivan

[mandrian]

Hi,

Does seem expensive. I received two armrests and 3 Wegen picks last week from Kyle at the Mando Store. He charged 13 dollars.

I was particularly happy when the postman put these through the postbox with no import charges. Kyle had filled out and stuck on the package the value of 75 dollars for the goods, so everything was above board. This seems to happen often, it's almost as if when the postman can get it through the postbox, you don't pay the import charges, although I realise it should not work that way.

Regards,

[houseworker]

Even by current US postal charge standards,that seems way OTT to post 8 tiny items that could be posted in half a cigarette packet (for example),

It's not the USPS that's to blame. It's Roger Siminoff sensibly protecting himself against chargeback by using a tracked service and the charge isn't that unreasonable.

It would have been worth asking one of the current UK Gotoh dealers if they were able to get them.

[Anglocelt]

It's not the USPS that's to blame. It's Roger Siminoff sensibly protecting himself against chargeback by using a tracked service and the charge isn't that unreasonable.

It would have been worth asking one of the current UK Gotoh dealers if they were able to get them.

Ivan does not say that his friend went ahead with the order; I suspect not. If so RS has lost a sale whilst 'sensibly protecting himself against chargeback' by asking too much for postage. I have never known a posted item from the USA to UK to go missing so why is protection needed at such a cost? I have always found Elderly to be very reasonable in their postage charges (although I nearly always have to pay import tax - which is levied on the postage charge too, by the way). It sounds like the Mando Store are similarly helpful in not going for the default overpriced services such as UPS and FedEx.

[Ron McMillan]

$26 for trackable postage is not a lot, Ivan. I just shipped a pickguard to Maryland from Thailand using EMS trackable courier postage, and it cost me $22. As others have pointed out, a business can't afford not to be able to track a shipping, making saving fifteen or twenty bucks on postage not only a false economy but an option that can be bad for business. Sure, it all adds up to the poor consumer in Britain paying a lot, but the rules are clear, so he should have had a fair idea what was about to happen.

[houseworker]

I have never known a posted item from the USA to UK to go missing so why is protection needed at such a cost?

Roger Siminoff is not a high volume dealer, he runs a small highly specialised business. Chasing around to sort out the cheapest postage option on a minuscule international order would be an uneconomic use of his time. It's unfortunate that the Gotoh tuner buttons aren't more widely available, but that's hardly his fault.

When I needed a set, I got them from a dealer in Japan as that was the cheapest option.

[Flame Maple]

I bought a Mc Clung armrest from Doug at Hill Country Strings for $37.00 plus $13.00 postage which I think is very reasonable. It was the extra 24 Euros charged by the Portuguese customs that bumps the price up

[Flame Maple]

Thats a fair assumption Housworker but I would have thought that most mail order companies have all the postal rates at hand without having any running around.

[houseworker]

Thats a fair assumption Housworker but I would have thought that most mail order companies have all the postal rates at hand without having any running around.

The terms and conditions on the Siminoff site make quite clear that he only ships USPS Priority. No-one's obliged to buy from him, and if you hunt around other suppliers can be found. It's not as if Roger Siminoff's under any obligation to provide spares for Kentucky mandolins anyway, Saga should be meeting that need. I don't get all the carping.

[RichM]

The terms and conditions on the Siminoff site make quite clear that he only ships USPS Priority. No-one's obliged to buy from him, and if you hunt around other suppliers can be found. It's not as if Roger Siminoff's under any obligation to provide spares for Kentucky mandolins anyway, Saga should be meeting that need. I don't get all the carping.

Apparently, some people's lives are so good, they need to go looking for things to complain about. Fortunately, they will be the first ones eaten in the zombie apocalypse.

[Ivan Kelsall]

From houseworker - " It's Roger Siminoff ...". Who mentioned Roger Siminoff - not me !. A few conclusions jumped to there.
The person in question 'Flame maple' didn't tell me where he'd sourced them,just that the postage was very high. There's absolutely no reason for items like that to be tracked - IMHO. If they're packaged so as to be annonymous ie. with little value, in a small Jiffy bag,where's the need for tracking ?. I've bought several items from the US (inc.4 mandolin straps) that didn't have a tracking feature with the postage & they all arrived ok. My strings, 8 sets at a time,purchased from Janet Davis music weren't tracked but none went missing.
Gotoh will not supply replacement/spare tuner buttons at all. Not to private buyers or to their dealers. I know because i e-mailed Gotoh in Japan after receiving my Ellis "A" style. I decided i might like some black buttons,but the cost was way too high.
If the source was RS,then i 'maybe' understand the reasoning,but surely such a cost would prohibit anyone from overseas purchasing such items - & a lost sale is a lost sale.
From Mandrian - "it's almost as if when the postman can get it through the postbox, you don't pay the import charges,..." It might seem like that when it happens,but as you say,it shouldn't. As i mentioned,i used to buy my strings from Janet Davis in the US. After the US postage increase,the total cost went above my allowance prior to duty & i had to pay duty on the strings. I always had to make a 7 mile round trip to the postal depot to pick them up & pay the duty, plus the ridiculous £8 ($12 US) PO 'handling fee' - that's where they put it on a shelf & wait for you to pick it up . I now get my strings from UK suppliers,slightly more expensive but i get them the next day - & they're not tracked !!.
In the UK,if i have to send a package of any 'value' (usually small),i send it by registered 'Insured' post & the insurance cost is usually pretty small. I recently sent a package valued at over £350 down to London & the insurance/next day delivery cost was £6.0. So,would insuring low value items for overseas customers be at a lesser cost ?. Is a 'tracked' item automatically insured for loss ?,
Ivan

[MikeEdgerton]

Actually Siminoff sells Gotoh buttons. Carry on.

[Willie Poole]

No wonder a lot of people are coming to the U.S. Lol

[Ivan Kelsall]

From Mike Edgerton - "Actually Siminoff sells Gotoh buttons. Carry on". We know that. There are other US sources for buttons to replace Gotoh tuner buttons besides Roger Siminoff, & it was their site that i personally looked at - still too expensive,
Ivan

[houseworker]

There are other US sources for buttons to replace Gotoh tuner buttons besides Roger Siminoff, & it was their site that i personally looked at - still too expensive.

Siminoff is the only US seller of genuine Gotoh tuner buttons. His target customer is a builder (rather than someone planning to bling their Kentucky) and those customers are more than happy to pay the going rate for his quick reliable service. It seems quite wrong to me that he's getting knocked in a thread like this because he's not prepared to act the cheapskate for customers from Europe on demand.

Nobody's obliged to buy from him, but some of us are very grateful that we have the opportunity to do so.

[Flame Maple]

The main reason I never made a purchase was because I cant remove a button on the KM 1000 B to see if they have 2 flats .The screw came out fine but the button wont budge .Ivan tried to help me by trying to remove a Gotoh button on his Ellis but had the same problem so I gave up .Lets start another thread on how to remove buttons .

[Ivan Kelsall]

I just had a look at Roger Siminoff's web page - http://parts.siminoff.net/buttons-kn...k-ivoroid.aspx It actually says that the tuner buttons are for ''our mandolin machines'. No mention is made re.whether they're Gotoh machines or that the buttons are genuine Gotoh buttons. Are they Gotoh's or not,or simply a set of tuners based around the design of Gotoh's ?. They look good !.
After Gotoh giving me their firm assurance that they don't supply spare buttons,it's a surprise to see them. Hopefully for US customers,RS has got the 'real deal'.

Ivan
PS - A further search of RS's site using the name 'Gotoh' found no tuners / machines bearing that name.

[houseworker]

I just had a look at Roger Siminoff's web page - http://parts.siminoff.net/buttons-kn...k-ivoroid.aspx It actually says that the tuner buttons are for ''our mandolin machines'. No mention is made re.whether they're Gotoh machines or that the buttons are genuine Gotoh buttons. Are they Gotoh's or not,or simply a set of tuners based around the design of Gotoh's ?. They look good !

They're genuine Gotoh MBs.

On the 'Hardware Machines' page, Siminoff says

Our mandolin machines are made by Gotoh and are very close replicas of the machines used on original F5 and F4 instruments.

Mandolin tuners (and the buttons) are not a stock item at Gotoh. They only manufacture to advance order and require a significant minimum order which rules out most dealers.

[Purdy Bear]

I've been caught by import tax as well. I purchased a hoody for a cat charity in the USA. It was £21 or so plus shipping making it approximately £40, which I thought wasn't a bad price for a decent bit of clothing. I didn't know about clothing import tax, which I had to pay another £21 before they released the item to me. Thus my piece of clothing was £60 plus, and it turned out to be something I could have got in the shops for £15. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

[houseworker]

Lets start another thread on how to remove buttons .

Or answer the question here. The buttons can indeed be a very tight fit on the shafts when fully home. The two flat sides have a very slight taper, just enough to ensure that the button tightens to the shaft as it is put on. I'd work round the 8 buttons in turn, until you find the one that frees easiest. Once you've got one off you'll find the others easier as you'll know quite how much pull is needed.

Clearly you remove the screw and washer at the end first. Be careful not to lose that screw, you won't find it easy to get a replacement. I then put two fingers under the button (one either side of the shaft) and use my thumb to brace against the side of the headstock while pulling the button out along the shaft. It's not a matter of brute force, just even, sustained pressure directly in line with the shaft.

Refitting the buttons - press the button fully on, then fit the screw which should only be tightened to snug. Don't use the screw to force the button further on as you'll face the same problem next time or (worse) strip the thread.

How tight your buttons are now will depend how tight the person who assembled them chose to fit them. But I'd be surprised if there's not one among the eight that will get you started. If all else failed, I'd apply a drop of a releasing fluid such as Plus Gas, but I find it hard to believe that would be necessary.

The buttons are a very precise fit to the shaft; with a modicum of care they will retain that quality.

[sblock]

Ivan, I was surprised to hear from you that the UK levies an import tax that depends on the cost of the POSTAGE, in addition to the cost of the articles being imported. That makes no sense at all. The cost of shipping is unrelated to the types of the articles, and the import taxes depend very much upon these types!

Here in the US, to the best of my knowledge, the amount of duty we pay is based on the articles themselves, according to the Harmonized Tariff Schedule (HTS). Postage doesn't count. Incidentally, our duty rate for importing common plastic items into the U.S. (like the tuner buttons) is only 6.5%, according to Chapter 39 of the HTS.

[houseworker]

Ivan, I was surprised to hear from you that the UK levies an import tax that depends on the cost of the POSTAGE, in addition to the cost of the articles being imported. That makes no sense at all. The cost of shipping is unrelated to the types of the articles, and the import taxes depend very much upon these types!

Here in the US, to the best of my knowledge, the amount of duty we pay is based on the articles themselves, according to the Harmonized Tariff Schedule (HTS). Postage doesn't count. Incidentally, our duty rate for importing common plastic items into the U.S. (like the tuner buttons) is only 6.5%, according to Chapter 39 of the HTS.

In the EU the tax levied on imports is Value Added Tax, which covers the cost of any service (including shipping). The USA has no equivalent tax.

[Flame Maple]

Thanks Housworker.I tried for some time to free the button. Tried to lever it off as you just mentioned but it wont budge.Im afraid of breaking it or marking the headstock. and then having to source a single button.I really would like to replace them for the black buttons.Other than completely remove a set of tuners at a time and maybe use a vice its difficult.Some one suggested using a hair dryer on a low setting to heat them and then try to wiggle them loose.I will keep trying .I was told that they are sometimes glued on when assembled.

[Flame Maple]

In Portugal the retail price plus shipping is taxed at 23% and then the import duty is charged on the total amount.

[sblock]

In the EU the tax levied on imports is Value Added Tax, which covers the cost of any service (including shipping). The USA has no equivalent tax.

Yikes. Well, I think it's downright UNCIVILIZED to charge a VAT based on postage! Postage doesn't "add value" in a transaction, and a VAT is supposed to be a form of generalized sales, or consumption, tax, based on the value added to a product by a given stage of the supply chain. Good thing I'm not some government bean-counter, because I obviously don't grasp the economics of the situation.

In reading up on this (ain't the Internet great?), I have now learned that when the VAT tax is set too high (like our example here!), it results in a shift in the supply-demand curve, so that demand is severely reduced, and MORE IS LOST in the shifts of demand and supply than is gained by the tax. In such situations, the government loses (tax revenue) and SO DO THE PEOPLE (who lose goods). This is a lose-lose situation, referred to as "deadweight loss" by economists.

Such a deadweight loss for so lightweight an item, huh?