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Thread: Tuners for bowlbacks

  1. #1
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    Default Tuners for bowlbacks

    I bought a "vintage" Lyon and Healy bowlback mandolin, and restrung it with ultralight strings (BTW, stringing a mandolin with those strings is MUCH harder than stringing a guitar with regular strings!) Anyway, two of the 8 tuners will not hold. I tune the string, and it immediately loosens. I thought about replacing the tuners (the mandolin appears to be early 1900s) and I was concerned about "ruining" the mandolin. Then I thought I bought it to play it, but can't really play it if it won't hold a tune. With the strings that hold a tune, the mandolin sounds really good! So how hard are the tuners to replace? The mandolin has a plate on the back, and is there a particular brand better for bowlbacks? Thanks! (I would post a picture, but am still having problems with (apparently) file size.)

  2. #2
    Registered User Hany Hayek's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tuners for bowlbacks

    Are you absolutely sure that the strings are getting loose because of the tuning machines. You loose some of the mandolin value if you put on new tuners. And you might not find tuners that may fit, specially with the plate on the back of the head. I only own bowlbacks, very old and the tuning machines are not in the best conditions but hold well. The only time I have a string going loose is when I have not strung it correctly. Pictures will help.
    “Music expresses that which cannot be said and on which it is impossible to be silent.”
    ― Victor Hugo

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  4. #3
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    Default Re: Tuners for bowlbacks

    I did a lot of reading other places on this forum, and I am going to take the plate off and investigate further. The mandolin strings were rusted when I got it, and it may just be that the tuners (wood, I believe - they are VERY dirty) need cleaned and lubricated. I don't think they are strung wrong - I strung them all the same way, and 6 out of 8 hold just fine. I am guessing the plate was never off (or not in a very long time since the strings were rusted.) One place I read said something to the effect that the original tuners held up for about 100 years and nothing new is likely to be an improvement - that made total sense to me, so later on today I will take the plate off and investigate. Thank you all for being here for us "newbies!"

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  6. #4
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    Default Re: Tuners for bowlbacks

    Lady try playing it and tuneing the strings in first. New strings will constantly slip out of tune until they are 'played' in. Once they are they will hold the tune, it's nothing to do with the tuners but the new strings 'warming' up. It might take a while for them so try playing and re tuneing for a week and see if the slippage stops.

    This worked for mine which constantly slipped after I was forced to replace them. You get the slippage on other instruments such as the Ukulele when you fit new strings.

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  8. #5
    Registered User Tavy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tuners for bowlbacks

    There are two types of slippage possible:

    1) String slipping on the post - this is the most common form, is more likely on the E or A strings, and is not solved by changing the tuners (unless you go fully modern - but they probably won't fit anyway). Best way to avoid this is to use a "string lock" : http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Musi...tringing2.html a simple "wrap it round" will not hold on the plain strings unless the post has a capstan-like shape - and vintage ones don't typically, where as modern ones do.
    2) Slipping at the tuner gear - this should be obvious when tuning up - you think you're at pitch and then there's a click and bang! you're all flat. Very rare, only had this on the G strings.

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  10. #6

    Default Re: Tuners for bowlbacks

    I would suggest LadySolo to take and share a photograph of the suspect tuners, just to be sure that strings are locked correctly (a sort of clove hitch -- I hope it's the right name for this knot! -- so that the string actually locks itself).

    The considerations I read about time needed to stabilize (it's not a problem of slippage, it's a problem of stressing the steel) are surely correct and even more with E and A ultra light.

  11. #7

    Default Re: Tuners for bowlbacks

    I should have probably added that old tuners can be repaired / adjusted. I know the right guy for that here in Italy, but maybe you can find one closer to you. In case you don't and you're willing to sever from your instrument -- or the tuners -- for some weeks, I'll give you his name and email address.

    Fernando

  12. #8
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    Default Re: Tuners for bowlbacks

    Putting the strings on - put through the tuner, pass under the string and fold it back over the string and then increase the tension (followed the tutorial on frets.com.) And my camera takes photos too large jpg. to post to this forum, and I am unable to successfully resize them (I have tried.) I would love to show off my mandolins, just can't do it. I checked out luthiers in Ohio, supposedly someone near Columbus, I believe, if I need it. I am trying to give it some time.
    Last edited by LadysSolo; Oct-12-2015 at 8:37pm. Reason: additional info

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