Widening a fret board

[Bernie Daniel]

It is my understanding that Mike Marshall had the original fret board on his Loar-signed Gibson F-5 removed to preserve it and then had a new wider fret board installed.

I've been looking at few of his mandolin videos and I do believe the nut on his Loar does look more like 1 3/16" than the original 1 1/16" that they usually have? Stop this video at 0:15 and you will see what I mean.



Now since I do not think he had also a new neck made for the mandolin, it follows that the new board must protrude over the edges of the neck by about 1/16' on each side at the nut?

I'd like to do something very similar to an F-5 copy that I have because I like the wider board. The mandolin in question has a 1 1/8" (at the nut) board and I'd like to bring it out to 1 3/16" like my Sam Bush.

I am wondering how hard it is to do something like that? Anyone here tried something like that?

[Paul Busman]

1 1/8"(or 1 2/16") is only 1/16" narrower than 1 3/16". It seems like an awful lot of work and risk for a minimal benefit. Just my opinion.

[Jim Adwell]

You could do it by angling the sides of the wider fretboard to be flush with the existing neck where they meet. It would probably change the way the neck feels when playing, maybe in a good way, maybe not.

I've done this before. Don't ask why.

[Skip Kelley]

I've done this on a mandolin before. The picker had a really great sounding mandolin but became more comfortable with a wider fretboard/spaced nut. I replaced the board and as Jim said, and had to angle the binding to meet the neck. The customer didn't notice that until I pointed that out as he had asked how I made that work. He was very happy. That was my goal.

[sunburst]

I got to see Mike Marchall's mandolin. The fingerboard does hang over the sides of the neck, the edges of the 'board are rounded, so they sort of flair out from the neck, but are rounded. It feels a little different, but not too much, because when we hold the neck more-or-less correctly (according to generally accepted proper technique) we touch mostly the back portions of the neck, so we don't feel a big difference... at least I didn't.

[Bernie Daniel]

1 1/8"(or 1 2/16") is only 1/16" narrower than 1 3/16". It seems like an awful lot of work and risk for a minimal benefit. Just my opinion.

Yes only 1/32" (~0.8mm) added on each side!

Call me crazy but it really does seem to make a difference?

For example, the mean inter-course distance on the instrument with the narrower 1 1/8" (28.57mm) nut is 0.161" (4.09mm) and on the instrument with the wider 1 3/16" (30.16mm) nut is 0.213" (5.24mm).

Hard as it is to believe it is noticeable both visually and for playing. Not sure you can see it in this image -- the Sam Bush with the wider nut is on the bottom.

[PlaneSimple]

FWIW.. I (mando beginner and builder newbie) chose to do this on my first DIY mando as I have played bass for several decades. My biggest struggle with mando has always been the size difference (as well as the flipped tuning : ) however.. I was reluctant to upsize the neck and increase neck weight.. so I made sure my maple binding had a good bite on the neck base. It extends out about a 16th on both sides and is not noticeable at all when you play. Aesthetically, I think it looks nice too.

[MysTiK PiKn]

When real estate is at a premium, it all matters. Even barely noticeable, will be noticeable somewhere - closer to the edge of the neck, closer between pairs, and wider between courses. That all maximizes the 'harvest'. And so it is a worthy pursuit, if preferred.
Me, I'm used to a gibson C-neck on guitar, and the nut slots are maxed for width. My thumb has reshaped itself, it seems, to reach and grab w thumb knuckle. This is imho a valid pursuit. I hate 'crowded' necks.

You guys help me a lot, and you don't know how that's true; but when I first started reading this, my "lesser experienced" mind jumped to the method described = I didn't dare say it; but was pleasantly surprised when the method was revealed. Thanks for many strange lessons. (even if not intended).

[Bernie Daniel]

FWIW.. I (mando beginner and builder newbie) chose to do this on my first DIY mando as I have played bass for several decades. My biggest struggle with mando has always been the size difference (as well as the flipped tuning : ) however.. I was reluctant to upsize the neck and increase neck weight.. so I made sure my maple binding had a good bite on the neck base. It extends out about a 16th on both sides and is not noticeable at all when you play. Aesthetically, I think it looks nice too.

Sounds pretty interesting it would be great to see some pics of this fret board!

[PlaneSimple]

Will do, Bernie.. the mando is drying.. varnished yesterday.. so when it dries I will get some photos. Thanks for the interest.

[Bernie Daniel]

Will do, Bernie.. the mando is drying.. varnished yesterday.. so when it dries I will get some photos. Thanks for the interest.

It would be great to see thanks so much!

[Mandoplumb]

1 1/8"(or 1 2/16") is only 1/16" narrower than 1 3/16". It seems like an awful lot of work and risk for a minimal benefit. Just my opinion.

Would seem like the difference in toothpick and a 2 by4 if you was really used to one size

[Wes Brandt]

You can also do a very minimal bevel on the fret ends and gain a tiny bit more.

[jim simpson]

I once installed a replacement fingerboard on an instrument. The old fingerboard was bound so I had to sand the width of the replacement to allow for the binding. When it dried, I realized that I should have taken off more material than I did. When I rebound it, I ended up scraping the binding to the neck but leaving more binding visible at the edges of the fingerboard. This did in essence added some width to the board (unintentional), it seemed like the best solution and it looked like it was supposed to be that way.

[PlaneSimple]

Excuse the close-up.. but here is a shot of my in-progress mandolin with oversized fretboard.
I don't know how an experienced mando player would feel, but to me (years of guitar and bass), I don't notice the ledge hanging over the side of the neck.

[Ivan Kelsall]

The extra 1/8" is only 1/16" per side. The fingerboard overhang could easily be sanded to blend the edges into the neck profile.It would give a bit of a 'Vee' profile,but it would still be smooth & comfortable to the hand,
Ivan

[Bernie Daniel]

Excuse the close-up.. but here is a shot of my in-progress mandolin with oversized fretboard.
I don't know how an experienced mando player would feel, but to me (years of guitar and bass), I don't notice the ledge hanging over the side of the neck.

I think it looks great and I do not think it would bother me to play on it either. Since the binding is maple it could be blended in as Ivan suggests should you want to do it but of course that would raise a new set of finishing issues!

[PlaneSimple]

Thanks, yes I think I am going to leave the overhang. It, to me, plays very well.. I have created something of a speed neck with cabinet scraper and Boiled Linseed oil. The overall look is rustic or maybe antiqued (to hide some of the flaws).. I like the intensified line created by the flamed binding.. and it's different! : )

[jim simpson]

My project kind of looked liked PlaneSimple's except that mine had ivoroid binding. I wastn't able to scrape the binding without disturbing the finish so I ended up refinishing the neck after the scrape/blend. I wasn't totally happy with the result but it didn't seem to bother the buyer.

[David Newton]

It is amazing how small a difference can be felt by the player. I hear it all the time when a player of a regular factory acoustic guitar, normally 1-11/16", picks up a guitar with 1-3/4" nut, "wow this is a wide neck".
Since I've been doing repair work for so long, I held on to one of those board-widtheners that were so common back in the day.

[acousticphd]

1 1/8"(or 1 2/16") is only 1/16" narrower than 1 3/16". It seems like an awful lot of work and risk for a minimal benefit. Just my opinion.

And 1" is only 1/16" less than 1-1/16"; and 15/16" is only 1/16" less than that; and 7/8" only a 16th" more .... Think of the wood and fret wire that could have been conserved if L. Loar had established 3/4" as the new FB width. I agree that it seems a tricky task to widen a board on an existing neck, yes, but that fact it was done I think makes the opposite argument about the "benefit" - it must have been a significant benefit to Mike Marshall, or he would never have considered it.

There is no good reason, IMO, for a mandolin fingerboard to be as narrow as many of them are. 1-3/16" was the Gibson standard for a decade or more, and what many players notice immediately is how much more comfortable it is to play with a bit wider spacing. Others however think the opposite.

[Bernie Daniel]

And 1" is only 1/16" less than 1-1/16"; and 15/16" is only 1/16" less than that; and 7/8" only a 16th" more .... Think of the wood and fret wire that could have been conserved if L. Loar had established 3/4" as the new FB width. I agree that it seems a tricky task to widen a board on an existing neck, yes, but that fact it was done I think makes the opposite argument about the "benefit" - it must have been a significant benefit to Mike Marshall, or he would never have considered it.

There is no good reason, IMO, for a mandolin fingerboard to be as narrow as many of them are. 1-3/16" was the Gibson standard for a decade or more, and what many players notice immediately is how much more comfortable it is to play with a bit wider spacing. Others however think the opposite.

Yes I think the decision by L. Loar to narrow the nut from 1 3/16" as it was in the F-4 to 1 1/16" for the new F-5 model was a questionable move. I find it really cramped. Today I would guess that most F-5 mandolins are built with a 1 1/8" nut. Kind of a compromise that many seem comfortable with?