Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: Any problems with super glue reacting with existing glues

  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Denham, Uxbridge, Middx. UK
    Posts
    10

    Default Any problems with super glue reacting with existing glues

    Hi.

    I am doing an overall of a 1912 Gibson mandocello (new tuners, nut, bridge and strings). The head and neck are laminated. There is a bit of a gap at the end of the headstock where the laminations are separating. I could work a little Titebond in, but most super glues travel quite well by capillary action and it is likely that I could fix a bigger area.

    Some super glues react badly with Titebond and I was wondering weather there is a danger with superglue and the existing adhesive on the Gibson head (unlikely to be Titebond).

    Does anyone have any experience of this? Many thanks.

    P.S. The close up photo makes it look a lot worse than it really is.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_0849s.jpg 
Views:	211 
Size:	104.4 KB 
ID:	139679

  2. #2
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Howell, NJ
    Posts
    26,874

    Default Re: Any problems with super glue reacting with existing glues

    It was put together with hot hide glue. The CA may wick but that doesn't mean it will hold.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  3. The following members say thank you to MikeEdgerton for this post:


  4. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Denham, Uxbridge, Middx. UK
    Posts
    10

    Default Re: Any problems with super glue reacting with existing glues

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    It was put together with hot hide glue. The CA may wick but that doesn't mean it will hold.
    Thanks Jim.

    By the look, it doesn't seem to be in danger of opening up. Maybe I am better off just keeping an eye on it and if it gets worse taking it to a full time repairer. My guess is that it won't move in the foreseeable future. Opinions welcome.

    Thanks.

    John

  5. The following members say thank you to john maw for this post:


  6. #4
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    15,863

    Default Re: Any problems with super glue reacting with existing glues

    If the head stock is warmed to over 90 degrees F, hot hide glue will wick in pretty well, it will hold as well as or better than any other glue or adhesive, and it will not present a problem for subsequent repairs. Will the opening clamp shut? Does the center laminate appear to be deteriorating?

  7. The following members say thank you to sunburst for this post:


  8. #5
    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    North CA
    Posts
    5,020

    Default Re: Any problems with super glue reacting with existing glues

    Quote Originally Posted by sunburst View Post
    If the head stock is warmed to over 90 degrees F, hot hide glue will wick in pretty well, it will hold as well as or better than any other glue or adhesive, and it will not present a problem for subsequent repairs. Will the opening clamp shut? Does the center laminate appear to be deteriorating?
    I've had good results flowing hot thinned hide glue into such tiny cracks.

    I've also used CA for certain repairs too, but in this case there's no need, it looks more cosmetic than structural to me.

  9. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Denham, Uxbridge, Middx. UK
    Posts
    10

    Default Re: Any problems with super glue reacting with existing glues

    Thanks John and David.

    The gap can be clamped down, at least most of the way. The gap is pretty small to start with. The middle lamination has not deteriorated visibly. I assumed it was ebony, but maybe I'm wrong.

    I've never used hide glue. is this something I could attempt or do you need a lot of experience using it before attempting something like this?

    Thanks to both of you.

  10. #7
    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    North CA
    Posts
    5,020

    Default Re: Any problems with super glue reacting with existing glues

    If you have never mixed up hide glue, you might try a premixed version, which would be fine for this use.

    Sure it's not as good for overall luthiery work, but in this case it would be a great place to start. Flow some glue into the crack and clamp it!

    Titebond makes a decent hide glue in a bottle.

  11. #8
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    15,863

    Default Re: Any problems with super glue reacting with existing glues

    I don't recommend liquid hide glue (in a bottle). If you are unfamiliar with hot hide glue and it's use, this is an awfully small project to go to the trouble and through the learning process. It's a simple repair for a luthier, so it is probably simpler to just take it to someone to be fixed (...but it might turn out to be someone who will fill it with Titebond or superglue...).

    FWIW, the center strip is some kind of wood (pear? maple? other?) dyes black, not ebony. It is the dying process that sometimes results in deterioration of the center strip.

  12. #9
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Denham, Uxbridge, Middx. UK
    Posts
    10

    Default Re: Any problems with super glue reacting with existing glues

    Thanks for the advice. Much appreciated.

  13. #10
    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    North CA
    Posts
    5,020

    Default Re: Any problems with super glue reacting with existing glues

    Quote Originally Posted by sunburst View Post
    I don't recommend liquid hide glue (in a bottle). If you are unfamiliar with hot hide glue and it's use, this is an awfully small project to go to the trouble and through the learning process.
    And that is exactly why I DID suggest bottled hide glue to a newbie for a tiny project. I wouldn't suggest using it to make a whole mandolin. But for a little touch up it's fine.

  14. #11

    Default Re: Any problems with super glue reacting with existing glues

    FWIW, the center strip is some kind of wood (pear? maple? other?) dyed black, not ebony. It is the dying process that sometimes results in deterioration of the center strip.
    Gibson used pearwood, in most cases. I have had good success wicking in CA to stabilize a deteriorated laminate, but in this case, I would go with thinned hot hide glue to repair the separation.
    I have not had any issue with CA reacting with old Titebond joints, but I do use odorless CA, which is much less aggressive. It never damages a finish.
    John

  15. #12

    Default Re: Any problems with super glue reacting with existing glues

    For some reason CA glue seems to play well with hide glue. I think it is because hide glue is made of skin, and you know how CA sticks to skin? something like that.

  16. #13
    Adrian Minarovic
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Banska Bystrica, Slovakia, Europe
    Posts
    3,461

    Default Re: Any problems with super glue reacting with existing glues

    Liquid HG is more flexible as HHG and I wouldn't recommend it for joints under stress. If you need considerable clamping to close the joint you need inflexible glue to hold otherwise it would slowly creep open.
    On the other hand, I have never seen any "reaction" of CA to other glues. I've used it succesfully on joints that were previously repaired with GOK glues and good cleaning was not possible. If the black strip is deteriorating (even on surface), the joint will pop open sooner or later and either CA will penetrate it or you'll need something else to hold the joint together like dowel or inlaid strip of maple across the headstock. Look up frets.com. Frank has a repair like that on his site.
    Adrian

  17. #14
    Registered User Tavy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Tavistock UK
    Posts
    4,438

    Default Re: Any problems with super glue reacting with existing glues

    You can definitely do HHG even if you've never used it before, check out Frank Fords article on mixing it up from supermarket components: http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luth...tchenglue.html

    Practice once first to make sure you can actually glue with what you're mixing up, then go for it, mix it up slightly on the thick side, then add a few drops of hot water at a time until it looks like it'll actually run into the gap. Then heat up the headstock (hairdryer will do, ask owners permission first!), and run the glue over the crack, clamp and leave for 24 hours. Clean up the excess afterwards with a damp cloth - this is the big advantage of HHG - you can slap it on liberally and then clean it up once everything is set.

  18. #15
    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    North CA
    Posts
    5,020

    Default Re: Any problems with super glue reacting with existing glues

    Well I'm all for folks learning to use HHG!

    http://www.stewmac.com/How-To/Online...e_and_why.html



    A good explanation about the uses of several types of glue including HHG and liquid HG.

  19. #16
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Denham, Uxbridge, Middx. UK
    Posts
    10

    Default Re: Any problems with super glue reacting with existing glues

    Very many thanks for all the advice and information. I have been away from the 'puter for a while and in the meantime decided that discretion was the better of valour. I worked Titebond into the gap and clamped it up (didn't need too much pressure to close it up). Had I waited and read some of the later replies I think I would have gone for HHG. I obviously need to get familiar with using it.

    Thanks again to everyone for taking the time to share your knowledge.

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •