Need Recommendations: Learning Standard Notation

[Emmett Marshall]

I've been using TAB to learn songs, but I've decided it's time for me to learn standard notation. Can anyone recommend a helpful book? When it comes to music theory, I'm an idiot, so nothing complicated please.

[Gary Leonard]

Debra Chen's Standard Notation for the Tab Addicted Mandolinist. I am slowly working my way through it, and like it a lot.

[Emmett Marshall]

Debra Chen's Standard Notation for the Tab Addicted Mandolinist. I am slowly working my way through it, and like it a lot.

Just ordered it. Thank you Gary!

[UsuallyPickin]

You won't be sorry. Ms. Chen's book is excellent. R/

[JeffD]

Really, music notation has nothing to do with music theory. Its just a notation. But I get what your saying - sometimes the theoretical jargon gets pretty thick when all you want is a way to remember where A is.

There are many many books and they are all good enough to get you going. Funny as it sounds, I would go get a beginners fiddle book. A rank beginner level. And just go through the exercises one at a time. The fingers will go to the same places.

I learned to read using a summer band clarinet beginners book, and a scrap of paper a friend gave me with where to put my fingers.

In the beginning the steps are just steps, like learning a poem or a speech you have to recite. But with repetition, it sticks. Its like it gets stored in a safer and safer place with each repetition.

Good luck. It is not a waste of time.

[Mateus]

I use an APP as a flash card equivalent just to try and remember and see how fast I can rattle them off.

[pointpergame]

I agree with the fiddle books as good practice material.

About the flash cards: In my brain, "saying" the names of notes interferes with playing the notes. Two separate mental operations. Though naming notes is useful when one is talking about the music with someone else.

[JeffD]

About the flash cards: In my brain, "saying" the names of notes interferes with playing the notes. Two separate mental operations. Though naming notes is useful when one is talking about the music with someone else.

Good point. The more important thing is to see a dot on a page and know where which finger goes on the mandolin. That there are names for the notes, while important, does seem to get in the way as an extra step in the learning.

Like - learn the correspondence between the position of the dot and the name of the note, then learn the correspondence between the name of the note and here the fingers go- - when you can eliminate the middle man, for now anyway, and just learn - if the dot is on a line its going to be first finger or third finger, if the dot is on a space its going to be open string or middle finger - and get going. Time enough to learn the names of things later.

[WW52]

The Debra Chin book sounds like it would be good. I think it's also particularly helpful to have someone who reads music available whom you can consult with when you have questions about something you're not quite grasping in a book. I learned to read on a mandolin, mostly on my own, but had a couple of friends (bandmates) who would help me through it when I got stumped on something --mostly on staff and notation symbols, which weren't really hard. It was just much easier to grasp when someone could show me or explain it in person. Otherwise, learning to associate note positions with fret positions and ear recognition was the slower, labor intensive part, but before I knew it I was slowly committing tunes to memory from notation. Good thing about learning to read for mandolin is that you only have to be concerned with the treble clef.

[derbex]

I'd go with Jeff and just learn from books of tunes. I started this a couple of years ago and the basics came pretty quickly, just remember that Every Good Boy Deserves Favour (the lines) and don't lose FACE (the gaps between them).

If you want some free exercises (you have to create an account) then there are these http://www.astute-music.com/shop/dow...oad-p-453.html

Haven't tried it, but I guess you print of some music paper and write out some tunes you already know in notation, might help?

[Purdy Bear]

The best way is to start learning by using the standard notation, thus you learn the note placements as you learn the corresponding finger positions. However, saying that it isn't impossible, you just need a chart which shows the notation compared to fingering charts, or you can use the normal Tabs and cover up the bottom part.

There is a bit more to it then just learning the note names and the lines they come on, you will need to know music theory if you want to really get good at it, for basics you'll need to understand clefs, notes on lines and between lines, rests, repeat marks, what the italian/french words mean as they will give the speed of the piece, the timing of the piece (4/4 etc). If you want to write music then you will need to know all music theory, but there is a lot on You Tube these days.

If you want to take the UK graded exams you will not only need to play the instrument, read music and sing but also pass music theory exams, especially at grade 5 as you can't progress above grade 4 instrumental without it.

It's just like learning any language just do a little every day and you'll get it. Luckily for me having played the flute I already know how to read most music, although a bit rusty, and found a great beginners book called How to play the Mandolin by Larry McCabe which gives the fret positions and the notation.

[A#Bb]

Just ordered it. Thank you Gary!

Emmett, where did you order the book from? I checked at Amazon and it is out of stock there. Thanks!

[bigskygirl]

Check out the Hal Leonard books. I learned guitar from these many, many moons ago and it teaches standard notation, it's pretty cheap at Amazon. There are probably lots of sites on the web and YT that have standard notation lessons too.

[A#Bb]

Thank You. i found it also at this site:

http://www.stringthingm.com/Shop.html

[Jess L.]

Haven't tried it, but I guess you print of some music paper and write out some tunes you already know in notation, might help?

That was a help for me, although not right at the first but a little bit later after I'd gotten a little more comfortable with the notes.

We didn't have home computers and music software back when I was first learning, but even nowadays I still find it handy to write out tunes using software that will play back the notes you've just entered, so if you can instantly see if you got the right notes for whatever tune you're trying to write. Learning new software might be a bit much to take on all at once as a beginner, though.

At some point later, if you do want to experiment with writing down tunes, I guess there are bazillions of different apps for music notation but the two I use are (1) the open-source software MuseScore which seems fairly versatile for a freebie (no, it's not 'pro' or anything but it does the basics), and also (2) the notation feature of TablEdit , it's more known for tab but it can do basic entry-and-playback of standard notation too.

[Emmett Marshall]

Emmett, where did you order the book from? I checked at Amazon and it is out of stock there. Thanks!

I ordered it from "String Thing Music".

[Emmett Marshall]

Thanks for all the options/advice from everybody. I think it will come pretty quick because I used to play the sax and I am familiar with the treble clef. What is throwing me off is the notation for all the chords and stuff like that. With the sax, all I had to do was "follow the bouncing ball" so to speak. I'll probably wind up getting a "Music Theory for Dummies" book at some point also.

[JeffD]

Thanks for all the options/advice from everybody. I think it will come pretty quick because I used to play the sax and I am familiar with the treble clef. What is throwing me off is the notation for all the chords and stuff like that. With the sax, all I had to do was "follow the bouncing ball" so to speak. I'll probably wind up getting a "Music Theory for Dummies" book at some point also.

I started on clarinet, so I know what you mean. Sight reading simultaneous notes still slows me down. But except for classical music, I find that most of the time the simultaneous notes are pretty intuitive. They are the kind of thing you would gravitate towards anyway, learning double stops, chords or even just noodling around.

Classical music is a whole 'nuther world. For me there is no sight reading, its work it out work it out work it out. Which is fun, and expands my playing, but it has never been easy for me.

[Emmett Marshall]

For me there is no sight reading, its work it out work it out work it out. Which is fun, and expands my playing, but it has never been easy for me.

Were you able to sight read for the clarinet? I was able to do so for the sax, but obviously not with the mandolin. I've been "okay" with TAB for the mandolin until I just started on this octave mandolin, so I'm going through the "work it out work it out" right now on "The Rain Song." If it wasn't for Jim Richter's video on youtube, I think I'd be so lost with just having the TAB as a resource. I downloaded his arrangement last week, and the first thing that hit me was that his standard notation "seems" to give so much more of the "nuances" to what he is doing, but TAB seems lacking much of that. This is what has got me started wanting to learn standard notation.

Is there a software that can take my recordings and transfer it to standard notation? Just curious because that would help me a lot.

[Purdy Bear]

I learnt to sight read through singing in a choir and flute playing, so I understand what everyone is saying. I'm going to work on set patterns of notes that must come up, if you recognise the pattern then it's going to be easier to play. Oh I've also done short hand so I recognise squiggles easily.

[JeffD]

Were you able to sight read for the clarinet? I was able to do so for the sax, but obviously not with the mandolin..

Yea, to a degree.

For me the hard part of sight reading is the rhythm. So I attack that first. I just mumble out the tune's rhythm, a few times maybe.

Then I start in. For fiddle tunes it usually goes well, though slow at first.

I have a preference for tune books that organize tunes by type. All the hornpipes, all the reels, all the waltzes, all the strathspeys, all the slow airs, etc. That way, once you have the basic rhythm, you can go down the page sight reading a good bit easier. Tune books organized alphabetically require me to work out the rhythm from scratch with each tune, which just slows things down.

[Jess L.]

... I've also done short hand so I recognise squiggles easily.

Cool to find out that shorthand is still in use. I remember my mom could write in Gregg shorthand, and when I was a little kid I got into her stash of old textbooks and tried to learn shorthand for myself, but I didn't get very far with it, too complicated for me at the time. (She didn't have any secret diaries or anything though, no drama there, darn.) I always thought it was fun to look at all the mysterious little squiggly lines, you know how kids always seem attracted to secret alphabets, writing in code, invisible ink (we used lemon juice and the kitchen oven for the inks developed by heat type of writing), one time my friend and I left a piece of paper in the oven too long and it almost caught on fire, oops). Anyway... fastforward... nowadays shorthand kind of reminds me of Arabic writing.

From what I've read on some sites today, shorthand is sometimes still used by reporters, medical-profession people, etc. Kinda neat that something so old-school (and that doesn't require batteries to run) can still be useful.

[August Watters]

Check out the Hal Leonard books.

Yes - the Hal Leonard Mandolin Method, by Rich del Grosso, is excellent for those who haven't read music before -- it uses American folk music to teach standard notation for mandolin. There was a second volume published last summer, too.

However the OP said he used to read SN on saxophone -- so if something a little more challenging is in order, the old Mel Bay Mandolin Method integrates melody/chord style nicely at a basic level.

[Perry]

I'll echo what other have said above....I don't think you need a method book/course to learn how to read standard rather just start doing it! Best to have a fiddle tune book that does not have TAB next to the standard otherwise too easy to cheat.

Also sight reading from an "easy piano" book with Beatle tunes, Christmas tunes or Nursery Rhymes is great practice. You already know the melodies in your head thus the learning curve becomes less steep.

Now does anybody have any tips when switching between guitar and mando while sight reading? It can really make your head spin!

[sbhikes]

I somehow forgot how to read music but I was able to relearn with a book from the library intended for little kids to learn how to play the recorder. It was like super elementary assuming you knew absolutely nothing about anything. The suggestion to use beginner books is a good one.