DPA 4099 vs Audio Technica ATM350

[almeriastrings]

This is something I've been meaning to do for a while. A direct comparison between two of the very best 'clip on' condenser microphones out there. There have been a couple of previous threads that discussed the topic, though in this one I will be including some sound files so you can actually hear both of them in action.

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...099-vs-ATM-350

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...m-350-and-more

The DPA 4099 is a very small hypercardiod pattern microphone designed using an interference tube, or classic 'shotgun' microphone construction. These are those big, long furry covered things you see film crews using. Normally, they are anything up to three feet long... but what DPA has done here is bring the whole thing down to about the length of a typical match...it lives inside its own tiny foam 'blimp', supported by a very flexible and effective shock mount.

As a condenser, it does require phantom power on the mixer. This is then dropped down in voltage and fed to the mic via the special XLR adapter with the DPA 'microdot' connector. For direct connections to wireless transmitter packs, the XLR adapter is not needed. Just a suitable microdot to transmitter adapter. Be warned! These are seriously expensive for what they are...



The really strong point with the DPA system is the range of mounting clips available. They are excellent (though again fairly expensive) clips. I have the violin clip (for mandolin) and the guitar clip (for guitars and OM's, etc.). You can also get clips for string bass, sax, piano, etc.

These clips are very well designed and are fast and easy to adjust and mount. They do not appear to damage the finish at all. I've used them on oil and spirit varnished mandolins with no obvious problems. This is how they look when mounted.



Tonegard? No problem.



The gooseneck itself can be adjusted in length by sliding off a little plastic over on the clamp and re-setting to the desired length. This gives a lot of flexibility in finding the "sweet spot".



It is a very well made rig, and of course, sounds generally excellent. It does have somewhat different properties from the ATM350 and AT PRO 35's. The first area of difference is in off-axis rejection. The side-side rejection of the 4099 is quite a bit more pronounced than on the ATM350 (especially at higher frequencies), however, the direct rear node rejection is actually less than the Audio Technica's - a product of the hypercardiod vs. cardiod design. This does mean that care has to be taken with monitor placement. The ideal spot for an ATM350 will not be ideal for the 4099 and vice versa. With a stand mounted mic getting this right is pretty easy, but with a 'mobile' instrument mic it is much more challenging. Some experimentation is definitely needed. For guitar, the 'rear end' will usually be pointing 'out and upwards', but on mandolin, could well be pointing more 'downwards' and in the general direction of floor monitors, so you need to be aware that the rear pickup 'zone' is particularly extended in the 250Hz-500Hz range, which is where feedback is most likely to occur. The ATM350 also has some polar pattern properties that mean it is susceptible to rear pickup in the 200Hz range, but it is not as quite as extended as the 4099.



This is not a major problem - just something you need to know when using these mics, as you will want to make certain your monitor placement is somewhat "off to the side" off that rear pickup zone - somewhere around 3.30 to 4 o'clock. While with the ATM350 a monitor can be more or less at 6 'o'clock without giving rise to issues.

One other effect of the hypercardiod design of the 4099 is that it has a much stronger proximity effect than the ATM350 (which is more neutral in that regard). Used very close up there is quite a notable LF 'boost' in evidence. The XLR adapter does include some built-in rolloff to compensate, but you'll likely also need to dial some more in on the desk. Also, you may need to position the DPA 4099 just a bit further from the 'F holes' than you would with an ATM350 or PRO 35.

To be continued....

[almeriastrings]

Having looked at the 4099, here's a brief recap of the ATM350. We have discussed it previously.

One point that often comes up is the difference between the PRO35 and the ATM350. On paper, it does not appear to be a lot - a slightly different frequency response... in fact, they are very, very different capsules:



The ATM350 capsule is very sophisticated, and is built to unusually high standards. It also has an interchangeable capsule head... with both omni and hypercardiod options available (though these are very hard to find). The components and cables are all of the highest grade...it actually feels "tougher" than the 4099 (though that can be deceptive, as DPA even use Kevlar in their cables).

The XLR power unit also includes a high pass filter (switchable, unlike the 4099 which is fixed). These are also tough. Mine has been used a lot, as you can tell by the wear, but still works perfectly.



One other thing with the Power Supply Modules... the DPA specifies it needs +48V +/- 4v. The ATM power module is much more forgiving, accepting anything from 11-52V. This might be important if you intend to use the mics with the often reduced phantom power from an acoustic amplifier (many of which offer 18v to 24v). In fact, I did test the DPA 4099 with +24v and it sounded OK to me - but I did not take measurements. It is safe to assume some aspects of performance, most likely headroom at high SPL's will be affected.

The mounting of the ATM350 and PRO 35 are by no means as flexible or easy to use as the DPA system. They are find on brass instruments, but more of a challenge on mandolin, and are really very difficult indeed on some instruments.

Here's how I mount them:



This requires some modification to the clamp. I stick soft leather on there...just in case.





This is a very solid and secure fixing, however - provide you have a pickguard/finger rest. Without one, it is much harder. You can attach to a Tonegard. Without a Tonegard, it gets really difficult...

Top marks to DPA for their fixing system.

Sound-wise, the ATM350 is really very neutral, very natural, and resists feedback well. You can work closer in than with the DPA4099 as it has far less proximity effect.

To cut to the chase - both the ATM350 and the DPA 4099 are truly excellent, totally professional grade microphones. There are some differences, which may or may not influence your choice but in terms of performance, both of these are truly top notch. There is no comparison to the results from even the very best pickups. It is not even close. Very little EQ work is normally required (apart from a bit off the bottom, and maybe a bit of the top, especially for the 4099). You certainly do not need to resort to 'drastic' EQ as you do with many pickups. You can also get a very useful range of 'tones' simply by shifting the distance and 'focus' the mics.... a small amount makes a big difference. You soon learn to use this to good effect.

The DPA is quite a bit more costly than the ATM350 (which itself is not exactly 'cheap'), but the mounting system is superb... while the 4099 system is clearly a winner in terms of the large range of mounting options, in audio terms it is by no means as clear cut. They both sound great. Even feedback resistance very much depends on use, and where the monitors are....

To be continued...

[foldedpath]

Good review! I've owned both mics and agree with the comparisons. I started with the ATM350 for the fiddler in a former trio, then started using it on my mandolin -- clipped to the ToneGard, one of the two easy ways of doing it, the other being a finger rest if you have one. We were an ATM350 band for a while.

Then I heard about the DPA 4099, and gradually replaced everything with all 4099's in my current live sound rig.

Frankly, that decision (although expensive!) was at least as much about the various mounting solutions as it was about the mic itself. I've used several of them now on mandolin, fiddle, acoustic guitar, Dobro, octave mandolin, upright bass, bodhran... there just isn't anything you can't figure out how to attach it to. That may not matter if all you have to do is amplify your mandolin, but it makes life super-easy for those of us who run our own PA's with varying formats of acoustic bands, and have to figure out how to amplify a bunch of different acoustic instruments. I think the DPA system is the only one so far, that really works well on acoustic guitar... if you can convince a guitar player to accept the slightly geeky look of the gooseneck poking over the upper bout.

The one thing that always made me nervous about the DPA 4099 was the very thin cable and tiny "microdot" connector to the XLR adapter. I assume DPA uses that design because a common application is to a wireless body pack, where you don't want the cable very noticeable.

I worried about it, but it's been years now since I've been using this system, and I've never had a cable failure. It's survived a few stupid user errors like stepping on the cable and yanking the mic off the mandolin, so it's not as fragile as it looks. I'm careful about not leaving the XLR adapter on the floor because that microdot connector is so tiny. I always drape the XLR adapter over a guitar stand or something to keep it off the ground. The current versions of the 4099 have a new design where the cable detaches at the mic, which makes it easier to replace the cable if you ever need to.

Of course wireless is (arguably) the way to go, with either the ATM350 or the DPA 4099, if you're able to afford the cost, the pros and cons of digital wireless, and can keep track of the ever-changing landscape of frequency allocations.

[mandotim1955]

Fine review, thanks so much for this. I have a DPA4099 as my main mic at the moment, but also have an ATM350, a PRO35 and several Thomann Ovid mics. I agree that there isn't much between the ATM350 and the DPA4099 in terms of sound, but in my setup both of them reject feedback pretty well. Neither needs much in the way of EQ (whereas the PRO35 does), and as you say, I have found that the 'sweet spot' for mounting varies a lot. For me (on an F5) the best position for the 4099 seems to be about 3cm away from the lower F hole, and pointing just outside the upper edge of the f hole.

[keithb]

I'd love to see how people are mounting the AT mics to their Tone Gard. I have a PRO35 that I couldn't figure out how to just clip on, so I built a bracket that I mount to the Tone Gard with magnets. It works, but I'm curious to see what others have done. I think Chris Thile clips his to his armrest, but I can't imagine that not getting irritating (and noisy!) against my forearm.

The PRO35 sounds much better than any pickup I've used, and I haven't had much trouble with feedback. I do find the cable to be a bit short at 6 feet, so I can end up dragging the power module around the stage. I've also been thinking I need to find an XLR mute footswitch so I can tune in silence.

[mandotim1955]

I found the best wat to mount the ATM mic was to buy a cheap generic tailpiece and mount the mic on that, using industrial strength velcro. Copy of an earlier post below. The mic can be left pre-adjusted, just swap tailpieces and you're good to go.

[almeriastrings]

Link to Tim's pics:

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...=1#post1381718

Below it, another ingenious suggestion using a DPA clip.

PS: I'll get the sound files up... been rushing back and forth to the veterinarian's with one of the dogs!

[keithb]

I think I'm going to have to find myself an extra tailpiece cover and some really strong velcro...

[foldedpath]

I'd love to see how people are mounting the AT mics to their Tone Gard. I have a PRO35 that I couldn't figure out how to just clip on, so I built a bracket that I mount to the Tone Gard with magnets. It works, but I'm curious to see what others have done.

I don't have any photos, but here's how I did it when I was using an ATM350. I bent the gooseneck into roughly a "U" shape, and attached the alligator clip to one of the ToneGard bars on the back side of the mandolin, close to the treble side edge. There was just barely enough gooseneck length to bend around the side of the mandolin and point the capsule at a spot just below the bottom of the treble F-hole.

The attachment at the back side of the Tonegard was strong enough, but the gooseneck wobbled a bit. So I used a small Velcro strap to secure the gooseneck to one of the "clamp" bars at the side of the mandolin.

A tailpiece cover with industrial-strength Velcro might work fine. My tailpiece doesn't use a cover, so that wasn't an option.