Preamps for ATM350

[Dom M]

Can anyone recommend preamps that would match well with an Audio Technica ATM350 (impedance = 50 ohms)? The idea is simply to provide a hotter signal to the PA than the ATM350 alone provides.

I bought the ATM350 to amplify an F-style Eastman. I'll sometimes play as a duo with a singer/guitarist, and sometimes add a drummer and bassist (and fiddler, possibly).

When I tried running the ATM350 directly into the singer's PA, she said it was difficult to get me loud enough to be hearable as we were playing with our drummer. She suggested that a preamp might help.

From what I've read, the ATM350 does not necessarily require an independent preamp (beyond the PA's preamp). But it seems that with some PAs a separate preamp could help -- does that sound right? (I don't know the make/model of this PA, but I'm told it's a modest one -- would it help to know about the PA?)

A note on mic placement: I had trouble clipping the ATM350 to my tone-guard (it fell off a few times!), so I ended up clipping it to a mic stand. I've since ordered a McClung armrest and I'm hoping that will allow me to place the mic more securely and keep the signal more consistent.

If a preamp is in order, the top of my budget would be $250-$300 (it would be great to spend less if possible). My main priorities with a preamp would be to keep the tone clean and avoid feedback.

Thanks for reading this far!

[almeriastrings]

Can anyone recommend preamps that would match well with an Audio Technica ATM350? The idea is simply to provide a hotter signal to the PA than the ATM350 alone provides.

I bought the ATM350 to amplify an F-style Eastman. I'll sometimes play as a duo with a singer/guitarist, and sometimes add a drummer and bassist (and fiddler, possibly).

When I tried running the ATM350 directly into the singer's PA, she said it was difficult to get me loud enough to be hearable as we were playing with our drummer. She suggested that a preamp might help.

Allow me to demonstrate my admittedly modest psychic abilities.... but... through the fog (it is clearing now!) I see someone has their wires crossed or a setting wrong on the mixer.

The ATM350 is plenty "hot" enough for just about any mixer (provided it is connected correctly) - 49 dB (3.5 mV) re 1V at 1 Pa.

Did they have 11-48v phantom power turned on? No 'pad' switch engaged? Into the standard XLR 'Mic' input (not the line input, as many assume)?

No external preamp required. This will work with any reasonably capable mixer, from the lowliest Behringer analog unit upwards.

[Dom M]

Thank you! Phantom power was turned on, and I was plugged into an XLR input (but I don't know if it was labeled "mic" or "line"). I don't know about a "pad" switch. I will ask about these things.

I hope your psychic abilities prove true! I will report back.

[foldedpath]

Former ATM350 user here. With what you said about the difficulty mounting the mic, I suspect it might be that you didn't have the mic capsule close enough to a good location on the mandolin, so the gain was lower than it normally would be. Or maybe that, plus a problem on the PA mixer end.

When I used this mic, I had the mic pointed just below the bottom of the treble-side F-hole, about an inch away. Or maybe an inch and a half, no more. It was picking up a combination of top resonance and the airmass inside the F-hole. I use the same location with my current DPA 4099 You have to get these clip-on mics pretty close to get the best results.

As Almeriastrings said, and assuming the mic is close enough, there should be no problem getting a good strong signal off the mic with any decent PA mixer. The problem is either the way you're positioning it, or a malfunctioning mixer, or someone who doesn't know how to run gain staging on that mixer.

You don't need an additional preamp with mics like this, unless you're trying to do something like use floor pedal effects before hitting the mixer. And preamps that are good for this application tend to be expensive.

[Marc Katz]

I predict that you will have problems getting enough volume from a microphone to keep up with a drum kit. It is about the most challenging amplification problem for an acoustic instrument. Using a pickup it could still be a challenge, but much easier.

Marc

[foldedpath]

I predict that you will have problems getting enough volume from a microphone to keep up with a drum kit. It is about the most challenging amplification problem for an acoustic instrument. Using a pickup it could still be a challenge, but much easier.

Yeah, I noticed the OP's mention of that problematic word "drummer."

But there are many possible scenarios involving drummers. Not every band with a drummer is some variation of the typical Rock setup. Take that recent "Sleek White Baby" video from Punch Brothers for example... very low key drums and bass. Chris Thile is playing miles away from a ribbon mic on a stand, and it still works because the musicians and the sound engineers are being sensitive to the arrangement of the song.

Granted, that's studio work where feedback isn't an issue, but a low-key setup with drums and bass can work fine with acoustic instruments on microphones, under the right conditions. And if the conditions aren't right -- the stage volume is just too high -- then yeah, go with a pickup. But no pickup will sound as good as one of these clip-on microphones.

[almeriastrings]

Yes - if the key issue is simply that unrealistic (for acoustic instruments) stage volumes are being demanded, then there is not much you can do except drop mics all together and look at pickups. Equally, another preamp will not help at all, in fact, it would make matters even worse.

For reasonable levels, an ATM350 straight into the desk will cope easily. In fact, you can get pretty loud... but still, there is a 'situational' limit. You then start trading 'quality' and fidelity for gain before feedback.

[noah finn]

Yeah, I noticed the OP's mention of that problematic word "drummer."

But there are many possible scenarios involving drummers. Not every band with a drummer is some variation of the typical Rock setup. Take that recent "Sleek White Baby" video from Punch Brothers for example... very low key drums and bass. Chris Thile is playing miles away from a ribbon mic on a stand, and it still works because the musicians and the sound engineers are being sensitive to the arrangement of the song.

Granted, that's studio work where feedback isn't an issue, but a low-key setup with drums and bass can work fine with acoustic instruments on microphones, under the right conditions. And if the conditions aren't right -- the stage volume is just too high -- then yeah, go with a pickup. But no pickup will sound as good as one of these clip-on microphones.

Dont want to derail thread but what mandolin is Thile playing in this vid?

[noah finn]

Dont want to derail thread but what mandolin is Thile playing in this vid?

Gilchrist f4....carry on.

[mandroid]

Drummer using Brushes? or should they have a sound window-wall

on 3 sides to come out Mic'd thru the board out the mains but not as loud onstage .for the players
if using regular drumsticks

CT obviously has access to cream of the crop Pro sound Techs.

[Dom M]

Thanks, everyone. The McClung armrest will arrive soon, and hopefully allow for better positioning of the mic at the bottom of the treble F hole. I don't plan to use a pickup, so when playing with a drummer, if volume is a problem, it'll be a matter of asking him to use brushes/lower the volume. It's great knowing a preamp is not the answer for my live sound -- that saved me some $$ and trouble.

[PVia]

I believe that when Thile and Punch Bros were using the ATM35 (the older version of the ATM350), they were using Joe Meek preamps, the ThreeQ in particular, or at least that's what was used for Chris Eldridge's guitar. That's what I use for both mandolin and guitar, no pickup. The ThreeQ provides a nice, but basic EQ section and optional compression.

I believe that Eldridge is now using a pickup (unknown to me) and some type of mic mounted slightly inside the sound hole. It could still be the ATM but I'm not positive. I believe that Noel is still using the ATM for the banjo.

Check out their full length concert on YouTube from the spring tour, recorded in Boston at the House of Blues, produced by WGBH.