Restocking Fees

[Don Grieser]

Ask and read the fine print. One place disclosed a 5% restocking fee when I asked about their approval period and return policy. Be careful out there. Add that to shipping both ways and you could see a serious amount of your mando bucks eaten by unexpected fees.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Don - Pardon my ignorance,but re-stocking of what ?. It seems that you're meaning re-stocking of an 'instrument' ?. That's a new one on me & i don't think we have anything like that in our UK stores,at least i haven't heard of it over here. Is that a fee levied on each customer ?.If so,it seems grossly unfair & i can't understand how they get away with it - don't they have to re-stock anyway ?,

From zedmando's post below - 'shipping charges' .That's one thing that's sunk a lot of 'imports'
from the US for a lot of folks in the UK or the EU. US Postal & freight charges have increased to the point where they're a substantial part of the overall cost of our goods on which we have to pay tax. It even sent the cost of importing 4 sets of mandolin strings from the US to the UK over my allowed limit of £15 UK ($22.80 US), so that i had to pay tax + a UK Post Office handling fee of £8UK. So,i buy my strings over here,or, as i've just done,purchased some strings from a German Co.,
Ivan

[zedmando]

Some stores charge & some don't.
Not a bad idea to ask.

And shipping charges are something to find out about as well.
Some online dealers will pay for return (at least if the gear is defective), some don't.
That's one thing that's nice about buying in person when possible.

[Don Grieser]

Ivan, if you return an instrument that doesn't work out for you, some places charge a re-stocking fee--to put it back in their inventory.

[almeriastrings]

This is how it works in the UK and the rest of the EU (as a minimum - some stores go far beyond this - I had to return something to a store in Germany recently and they not refunded the original cost + shipping without question but they also sent a free shipping label for return. Great service).

The original cost of the outbound shipping to you should always be refunded by the seller.

The seller's terms and conditions or returns policy should state who pays the cost of returning the item.

If they do not explicitly state this, then the seller has to cover the cost.

In this case, you're entitled to a refund of the total amount you paid, including costs to ship the item to you, and the fee to return the item. No admin or restocking fees should be charged.

You can decide to return an item for any reason within 7 days after receiving the item if purchased by 'phone or online (many sellers voluntarily extend this to 30 days).

[darylcrisp]

Don
I experienced a dealer who charged 15% on top of shipping to and from if an instrument was returned within the trial period, and that was a used instrument. Needless to say I walked away quietly and quickly. I have no problem paying shipping/insurance to and from upon a return, but I see the restock fee as a gouge and nothing more.

Yes, definitely read the fine print and ask.

d

[Seattle]

I get it. It's to discourage people from ordering a bunch of stuff and returning it just because they changed their mind. If it's misrepresented there is usually no re-stocking fee. Some dealers don't charge any re-stocking fee of course.

[Mandoplumb]

I get it. It's to discourage people from ordering a bunch of stuff and returning it just because they changed their mind. If it's misrepresented there is usually no re-stocking fee. Some dealers don't charge any re-stocking fee of course.

Sure that's going to happen but if the buyer pays shipping both ways it hasn't cost the seller anything but not having the merchandise for a few days. That's the cost of doing business. I was in a book store a few months ago back looking at the books when an emplorie came over and very politely informed me that looking thru the books broke the splines so I was not to do it. I politely left, a few weeks later I saw the store had closed,people wanted to view the merchandise. If I'm going to buy an instrument on line I have to be able to check it out and change my mind about wanting it without a "restocking" fee.

[Mandobar]

If the buyer uses a credit card and returns the instrument the store pays credit card fees both ways. that's 6%. and the store made no money. On a $5k mandolin that's $300. while you might believe that this is the cost of doing business, for a small business $300 is a lot of money.

as for not costing the seller anything, what about the time and the materials to ship the instrument? let's be reasonable, we want these stores to stay in business and carry great inventories, but we also want them to absorb fees, etc. it is impossible.

there are also a lot of "serial returners", people who buy instruments with no intention of keeping them longer than the approval period, and while these individuals were the exception, from what i gather this activity is becoming more and more popular, so the few ruin it for the rest, as the saying goes. restocking fees and return policies are just the way a store owner has in combating this behavior.

[EdHanrahan]

... also a lot of "serial returners" ... with no intention of keeping them longer than the approval period ...

Or that buy two or three with the intention of selecting one and returning the others because, hey, it's free!

[Jeff Mando]

Good points on both sides, guys! Having worked retail selling instruments, I agree that there are serial returners, who think a small business can tolerate a "Walmart" return policy. Most small businesses can't. Fairly common on Monday morning, seeing a buyer show up to return his purchase, after "test driving" it all weekend. Stores don't break even on returns, they lose. With eBay or any mail order -- even more so. On eBay especially, another factor to consider is when an instrument is returned and relisted, there is often a stigma attached by prospective buyers who saw the instrument the week before (2 weeks, whatever....) and now they feel something must be wrong with it, since it was sent back. Often in an auction situation, the item will sell for less the second time around because of this, especially a vintage item, because it is now "jinxed". The only way a seller could come out OK on a return is if the item bids substantially higher the second time around.

I think as long as the return policy and restocking fee is clearly stated it is fair game. The customer decides if they want to do business with that seller. In the early days of eBay (before all this "fancy schmancy" customer protection, etc. just joking! hee hee) a seller could clearly state all items are sold as is, no returns and guess what? Business went along just fine back then.....in fact, some sellers showed some humor and even stated, "NO RETURNS --THIS AIN'T WALMART"!

Some of these points have been made before and I've told this story on this forum, but I will mention it again. One wealthy local customer I know, and this was several years ago on eBay, ordered 4 vintage Martin D-28's with the idea of playing them all at the same time in his home, knowing he would keep the best one and send the other three back. I'll give you a few seconds to recover from the shock of what I just said.............................................. ...OK, we're back. How in the world is that fair to the "other" three eBay sellers? IMHO, this "buyer" is not just being picky, this is bordering on mental illness. I see Ed beat me to the above point -- they say great minds think alike!

Not mentioned also, is the wear and tear instruments receive from being banged around in trucks across the country. Rarely, do I get an instrument returned to me that is packed as well as I sent it. Things like a brace popping loose may not even be noticed until much later after the return, causing another repair cost for the seller/store.

[pointpergame]

I'd say "restocking fee" is a way to discourage returns, if not a touch of deception. If it were called "return discouragement fee," I'd feel much better about it. On the other hand, I have absolutely no kind thoughts for "handling charge." That should be called "additional charge so we can lie about the price." And don't get me started on all the similar legal (?) fees in airline tickets, car rentals, and hotel prices. The fact is, we allow a great deal of deception in advertising.

[MDMachiavelli]

I lot of businesses that have a very generous return policy may charge a restocking fee. They do this sometimes because the may not, in good faith, be able to resell that item as new.

I don't have a problem with a restocking fee as long as it is reasonable and I know about it up front. And I feel it is my responsibility to find out.

Remember, you are free to do with your money as you wish, if you don't like polices don't spend your money with them.

[OldGus]

One wealthy local customer I know, and this was several years ago on eBay, ordered 4 vintage Martin D-28's with the idea of playing them all at the same time in his home, knowing he would keep the best one and send the other three back. I'll give you a few seconds to recover from the shock of what I just said.............................................. ...OK, we're back. How in the world is that fair to the "other" three eBay sellers? IMHO, this "buyer" is not just being picky, this is bordering on mental illness.

I don't know the guy but this seems logical. Probably part of the reason he has more money than you or I; he is good at business. He looked well into the matter and made an informed decision he could live with in the long run. It's inconvenient for the seller but they are going to sell it anyway and he plans to keep one. You're right it's not Walmart(so why mention it? It's irrelevant), he was buying a vintage Martin D28. If it had been a tee shirt or the like I would see a better connection in that logic. As you know these vintage guitars vary and could have damage. If Ebay sided with sellers allowing no return many would stop or severely limit their buying on Ebay, smart move for Ebay to allow some returns and make some effort to mitigate when there is an issue. It sucks for those who just want to 'move stuff'; business is easier for a seller with no returns but unfair to the buyer and business is a two way street. Rapport with the customer is very important for the small businesses, a 15% restocking fee would not make me happy. They could keep reselling it and pocketing the profit like a 'coin on a string' sale. That's not right either. It is also very important for a music store to stock what people want to buy which is on them to determine. A lot of stores don't look as well into their stock as this person did, maybe he should be running a music store. You complain about a fickle buyer returning something and it turning off another fickle potential customer(the one you wanted?). Maybe you are in the wrong business...

[Mandobar]

True, recent story, told to me by a dealer friend. Two separate customers ordered three high end guitars to be shipped. Paid for them all at once ($12k times 3........do the math). Both paid to have these overnighted to them, and promised to buy at least one of the three. Neither customer bought one, and shipped them all back ground which meant it took days to get them back. One customer forgot to insure them on the return shipment. Thankfully, nothing happened to them, but really?

[Ray(T)]

Ivan - I have heard of it in the UK but the wider use of t'internet (as we often refer to it in these parts) has brought about the "Distance Selling Regulations" which effectively mean that if you buy something mail order you have fourteen days to send it back for a full refund. The extent to which this applies in the rest of the EU I'm not sure.

[HoGo]

Ivan - I have heard of it in the UK but the wider use of t'internet (as we often refer to it in these parts) has brought about the "Distance Selling Regulations" which effectively mean that if you buy something mail order you have fourteen days to send it back for a full refund. The extent to which this applies in the rest of the EU I'm not sure.

Holds here in Slovakia as well. But full refund means refund of buying price without shipping or handling fees. Even when you return faulty item shipping it back to seller is on you.

[allenhopkins]

I think one of the problems is the term "restocking fee." Pay for what -- to put the instrument back on the shelf? How is that more than a couple buxx under any circumstances?

Now a "handling fee" is something we're more used to -- "BUT WAIT -- THERE'S MORE! If you send for your Whozis today, we'll DOUBLE THE OFFER, AT NO EXTRA CHARGE! Just pay separate postage and handling..." Yes, the seller does have to buy boxes and styrofoam peanuts and mailing labels, and has to pay to wrap and send, and then, if you return the item, to unwrap, probably (we hope) put another set of strings on, do an inspection, re-list, etc. So there is some handling cost in sending, and it accepting a return.

On the other hand, betcha those costs are built into the purchase price, which the ultimate purchaser pays. And if the seller dislikes sophisticated buyers gaming the system by "buying" several instruments, with the intention of only keeping one of them, seems to me that's a risk of doing on-line and mail-order business. No one would discourage a buyer from walking into a shop and trying several instruments before settling on one of them. Reality is that many buyers can only compare instruments by "buying" both of them, and returning the less preferred one. Not all of us have well-stocked local stores with a selection of comparable high-quality mandolins.


Another factor, mentioned above, is fees that sellers have to pay credit card companies, both for purchases and returns. Does seem that some of that burden might well devolve upon the non-purchaser of a returned instrument.

[Jeff Mando]

But full refund means refund of buying price without shipping or handling fees. Even when you return faulty item shipping it back to seller is on you.

Even if you return it to Walmart, you are responsible for getting it back to Walmart! Simple, huh?

Folks, it really all goes back to Walmart and how they've distorted the concept of hassle-free returns. That has become the norm for all purchasing in many people's minds. WHY, in my father's day he wouldn't return something for fear of being branded a person who "likes" to return things, i.e. a nuisance customer -- an embarrassment and certainly a no-no in an era of small town politics. Today, of course, we shop in the comfort of faceless, is not nameless, internet anonymity.

Now, if only Walmart carried a finer line of mandolin.........

[Mark Gunter]

Reality is that many buyers can only compare instruments by "buying" both of them, and returning the less preferred one. Not all of us have well-stocked local stores with a selection of comparable high-quality mandolins.

You do have a point . . . OTOH, if you can afford to tie up $36,000.00 to try out three expensive instruments in your living room, maybe you should spring for airfare and just visit the shop. Just sayin'

[OldGus]

Folks, it really all goes back to Walmart...

No, it really doesn't and many other stores had return policies before Walmart was around. It has to do with guarantees/assurance and rapport. Many builders offer approval even on custom ordered/ custom made instruments. Some call it a 'quality assurance policy'.

[Mandoplumb]

If I find what I want in a bricks and mortar store I get it down and play it maybe 2or3minutes maybe an hour, I know with the Internet I now have world wide search where before my search area was limited but the seller has a world wide market place instead of the limited one he had. The rules have changed the cost of buisness has changed. I don't think the sellers cost exceeds the shipping both ways which I would pay but I won't pay any other trumped up charges.

[Rob Meldrum]

If you buy something on eBay or from an online company, your return should be restricted to product not as advertised or broken/damaged. Buying three vintage Martin guitars? Not so much. But that's just me.

[SincereCorgi]

I completely agree that customers should ask the return policy before purchasing an instrument, especially if shipping is involved. It's not really a nefarious scheme on the side of the seller, though, and I think most sellers would waive that fee if you decided to do an exchange rather than a straight return. For every honest Mandolin Cafe person trying an instrument in good faith, there's a dude who flies into town and buys and amp and bass for a gig on Friday night and then returns it on Saturday afternoon.

[Petrus]

Most larger stores are on to the "free rental" type buyers and log returns into their system. If you do too many returns over a certain period of time they reserve the right to refuse a return.

For those that like to buy several similar instruments at the same time "on approval" with the idea of only keeping one of them, would it occur to them to inform the sellers in advance that they are doing this?