Chris Thiles mandolin clip on microphone?

[kmmando]

I saw The Punch Brothers a while back, and was impressed with the fixed/clipped on microphone system that Chris, and possibly others in the group were using.

Does anyone know what these might be?

Any issues with that sort of amplification approach? I've seen sax players use a similar thing in the past.

many thanks

Kevin Macleod

[Marty Jacobson]

Previous threads have discussed this, I believe he used an ATM350 in the past.
http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...r-a-gig!/page2

[Rob Beck]

Kevin, you may also find this thread useful as you are in the UK. This Thomann system is a cheaper alternative available from Germany, which may give you an oportunity to test the approach out without spending "too" much money!

The only issues I have noticed with it compared to my peizo pickup is more of a tendency to feedback than I was used to, but the sound is much more natural.

[Shelagh Moore]

I use a UK-made Microvox clip on mic + power supply, Microvox will modify the mounting screw length to fit a mandolin. I have one for my Nava and a second for the RM-1. It works well and is also a lot cheaper than the ATM system.

[foldedpath]

The most recent info I read here is that Chris and the rest of the band were using the clip-on condenser model that preceded the current Audio-Technica ATM350. Maybe ATM35? For stage shows they usually have a wireless system, I don't know which model but probably something high-end like Lectrosonics if it isn't provided by the venue.

Clip-on mics are a great way to amplify a mandolin. I've been using that approach for the last 5 years, and it sounds so much better than any pickup I've heard. The main consideration is feedback control, because while they'll give you a few more decibels of headroom in GBF (gain before feedback) than using an external mic, due to the close position, they are a bit more prone to feedback than an internal pickup.

With proper placement of the main speakers and floor monitors, and someone operating the PA who knows how to ring out the system, *and* if you're playing at reasonable stage volume levels without a drummer and electric guitars, then feedback can be easily controlled. If you're on a loud stage with drums, electric guitars, or just a band that likes to hear monitors dialed up to 11, then all bets are off. You're probably better off using a pickup, for less headaches. Punch Brothers uses this type of amplification because they work with good sound engineers, and usually with IEM (in-ear monitors) that make feedback issues moot. IEMs aren't for everyone though (I don't like them), and good systems are expensive. That's another whole discussion.

As for specific models, I think the best mic on the market right now (and unfortunately the most expensive) is the DPA 4099. It has a "mini shotgun" design that's a little more feedback resistant than other mics I've used like the ATM350, and it has, by far, the best mounting system. I use the same mics on Octave Mandolin, Acoustic Guitar, Fiddle, and Dobro for other players in groups I've worked with. Sounds great on everything.

The Audio-Technica ATM350 is a decent mic, not quite as good as the DPA 4099 but more affordable. The gooseneck clip is a little fussier to mount and take off, but if you use a ToneGard it provides some good attachment points. The Thomann system mentioned above has been getting good reviews here, and it's also a less expensive solution. Any of these mics will work well with wireless systems, otherwise you'll be needing phantom power from the PA mixer, or an acoustic amp that has an XLR mic input with phantom power.

Here's what the DPA 4099 looks like on my mandolin:

[kmmando]

Many thanks to all for the tremendous information, much obliged!
Kevin Macleod

[mandroid]

Does anyone know what these might be?

Any thing he wants .. by now , the microphone manufacturers may give him some samples,

Written off in the Sales-Promotional-Advertising Budget..


I'm thinking the Issue is , like a soundboard pickup,
you have to have another way to lower the volume between solos ..

where back away works so simply with a Mic on a Stick.

and that monitor placement thing ..

[Traveling Tracks]

I've spoken to Dave Sinko several times, Punch Brother's and Edgar Meyer's personal engineer, and he told me they went through a batch of DPA 4099's that all broke. So he wasn't happy with the way they held up and the fact that they were "so expensive". But honestly, as far as DPA's good, those are cheap. Those are like $600, the ones I use are like $2,000. I'm sure breaking one or two would suck, and breaking more than that could become an expensive problem. But I've personally felt it's been hit or miss with the actual quality of amplification of Thile's mando during Punch Brothers shows. On the antifogmatic tour, I wasn't impressed with the AT35's they were using. But on the Who's Feeling Young Now…due to the difference in desired tone, it didn't bother me. But Thile's desired tone on antifogmatic was more "natural" than on the "effected" sound of Who's Feeling Young Now.

[jim simpson]

A band mate lent me an Audio-Technica PRO 35 Condenser mic to try. So far I like it but would like a different removable mount system. The alligator clip currently mounts okay to the tailpiece, I'm concerned of it being bumped out of position. Does this mount ( http://www.ebay.com/itm/262129546986...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT ) look like it would be compatible? If so, I would think the rod could be cut to shorten for the mandolin. I guess this one ( http://www.ebay.com/itm/DPA-d-vote-4...gAAOSwIwhWTKWg ) is already the right length, I guess the question would be is the mount also available separately from the mic and would it work with the Pro 35 Audio Technica. Thoughts?

[loess]

Here's a post from a few years back where someone did just that, attaching the ATM Pro 35's gooseneck to the DPA mount with a hot glue gun.

[jim simpson]

Here's a post from a few years back where someone did just that, attaching the ATM Pro 35's gooseneck to the DPA mount with a hot glue gun.

Thanks!, that was helpful. I wonder if one could build up the diameter with layers of heat shrink tubing in place of hot glue.

[mandotim1955]

Lots of answers to the mounting question in this thread from a few months back... http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...echnica-ATM350

[Bluejay]

Just saw the Punch Brothers last night. They are using ONE mic only. No amped instruments. The sound was great.

[jim simpson]

I ordered the DPA guitar mount (won on Ebay) and cut the stem to the length of the mandolin/violin model. I found that just clipping the Pro 35 mic onto the DPA was very secure. The DPA clip removes easily and should allow me to transfer to whichever mandolin I wish to use it with. I'm curious to see how it works with my Poe F4.

[DataNick]

foldedpath & Jim,

Does the "mount" stay affixed or is it easily removeable on the DPA 4099?
Curious about clearance inside of your mando case....

[foldedpath]

foldedpath & Jim,

Does the "mount" stay affixed or is it easily removeable on the DPA 4099?
Curious about clearance inside of your mando case....

It's not meant to be left on inside the case, and it's easily removable. The attach and detach is really fast; you just pinch two little "ears" on the clamp to relieve the tension.

There *is* a risk of knocking it off the instrument while playing, because the tension on the mandolin body is a compromise between being tight enough to hold during the gig, and not so tight that it might damage the finish. I just loop the cable through my strap so if it does come off, it won't hit the floor. And I've trained myself to keep my hand away from it when playing. If you're a really active player, you could use a small twist tie or velcro tab around the tailpiece or ToneGard as a safety strap.

It may be possible to find a mounting angle for the gooseneck that would let you keep it inside the case, but I don't think it would be ideal for the acoustic capture from the mic capsule, and you would need to attach/detach the cable or find space to coil it with the XLR adapter inside the case. The newer version of the DPA 4099 mic has a detachable cable, but the Pro 35/ATM 350 doesn't. These clip-on mics are really meant for temporary attachment when setting up for the gig.