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Thread: Fifths on bass?

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    5 Blessings Sweetpea44's Avatar
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    Question Fifths on bass?

    Just curious if anyone has restrung a bass to fifths tuning. Ibanez makes a short scale bass (28") in 4 or 5 string. Has anyone played around with something like this? Wondering if one could be tuned FCGD(A) or CGDA(E) for fun.
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    Default Re: Fifths on bass?

    It's certainly an idea... Usually, the "standard" scale length of a bass, ~30", is pretty prohibitive of fifths tunings (the stretches!!), but a 28" might make the concept workable. I haven't ever played a bass in full fifths tuning, as I never really saw a need to. The argument in favor of stacking fifths in the guitar world, like NST, is that it offers symmetry across the neck. Bass tunings, which stack fourths, already render that symmetry, so I suppose I've never felt a need to mess with it. I have, at times, dropped the low E to a D, but that's about as wild as I get on bass.

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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fifths on bass?

    The stretch between the notes would be tough. Even the Gibson mandobass wasn't tuned in fifths.
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    Registered User spufman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fifths on bass?

    Typical electric bass scale length is 34". I definitely draw the line there! Beyond the extremely difficult stretches, you'd have to contend with a search for string gauges that may not be readily available in the lengths required. That long neck won't much care for excessive tension. Fourths tuning works great with a bass, in my opinion. I can be plenty supportive and melodic with standard tuning!
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    Default Re: Fifths on bass?

    Oh ok, I'm not a bass player, so I was just curious. I know the Eastwood baritone tenor is a 27" scale length .... so wasn't sure if the extra inch would change things too much. I just didn't know if that would be a fun way to 'start' on the bass if a fifths tuning is already a familiar starting point .... if someone from the mando world wanted to try a bass for fun.
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    Default Re: Fifths on bass?

    And, just to be clear .... I was just curious about the short scale version of the bass. Sorry! I wasn't trying to retune the 34" ones .... just the shorter versions.
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    Default Re: Fifths on bass?

    Just as an observation, many Chapman Stick players have the bass side tuned in fifths. When they do something more note-intensive, they need both hands to pkay the bass part alone, due to the extreme vertical distances between the notes, even though they are rarely down by the nut, but instead much higher on the neck.

    I used to play full fifths at a 28.625" scale length, and abandoned the tuning as too vertical. I found that a six-string bass in fourths was better suited.

    Granted, if one were purely hitting roots and fifths as a bassline, I'm sure full fifths would be just the ticket.
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    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fifths on bass?

    If I recall jazz bassist Red Mitchell used that tuning.

    http://www.lemurmusic.com/Spirocore-.../products/320/

    "
    Home > STRINGS > Thomastik Double Bass Strings > Spirocore Bass Red Mitchell 5ths Tuning

    In Fifths Tuning (A-D-G-C)

    In this tuning, the double bass is tuned like a cello but an octave lower (A-D-G-C.) Fifths tuning was once a very common double bass tuning but has been supplanted by standard tuning in fourths. However, Fifths tuning has been re-adopted by a handful of bassists, most notably (the late) Red Mitchell who lends his name to this particular Spirocore sets. Other players who tune in 5ths include Joel Quarrington, Dennis Mazzuso, Silvio Dalla Torre, Paul Unger,and Larry Holloway. 5ths tuning is definitely gaining in popularity."

    http://joelquarrington.com/tuning-in-fifths/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifths_tuning

    http://www.talkbass.com/threads/anyb...-fifths.45144/

    http://www.dennismasuzzo.com/bassinfifthsarticle.htm

    It seems there was also a tradition of 3 string basses tuned in 5ths.

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    mandolin slinger Steve Ostrander's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fifths on bass?

    Some other short scale basses are the Hofner Beatle bass (and the many clones) and Fender Mustang bass. I think the Hofner is shorter than the Fender.
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    Default Re: Fifths on bass?

    most electric and acoustic/electric basses are 30"...my Martin B-1, Breedloves, Guild acoustic/elec. Rickenbacker electric, Carvins & several others are 32" scale...I suggest you get a 32" fretless and work out your own personal recipe...

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    Default Re: Fifths on bass?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    The stretch between the notes would be tough. Even the Gibson mandobass wasn't tuned in fifths.
    It might be worth noting that the string bass we're all used to, the orchestral contrabass, isn't a violin-family instrument, and the proof is in the tuning. Violins (and mandolins after them) are tuned in fifths. Viols (violas da gamba) were tuned in fourths, or sometimes four fourths and a third. That's the tradition that gave us the orchestral bass, and eventually the bass guitar. The Gibson mandobass was a deliberate imitation of a contabass. Unlike the rest of the mandolin orchestra suite of instruments, it's antecedents belong among the viols, not the violins, and this explains the differences between the bass instruments and the rest of the string section.

    Yes, I suppose that this distinction is ultimately driven by compromises between scale length, tuning, and hand size. Unless you're a giant with NBA-sized hands, at bass scales the reaches are just too painful when tuned in fifths. Dropping to fourths (& thirds) makes the reaches possible and also made adding strings or courses viable. The historical development that lead to the modern guitar happened in parallel over a much longer period* but trod very similar ground.

    *than Gibson's MO invention.

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    Registered User foldedpath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fifths on bass?

    You could try it on a Kala U-Bass (or similar designs). I think the U-Bass is a 21" scale. Not sure if you'd find the right string gauges though.

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    Default Re: Fifths on bass?

    True - my brother-in-law has a UBass. He says he has problems with it staying in tune.
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    Default Re: Fifths on bass?

    Quote Originally Posted by foldedpath View Post
    You could try it on a Kala U-Bass (or similar designs). I think the U-Bass is a 21" scale. Not sure if you'd find the right string gauges though.
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    Default Re: Fifths on bass?

    I had purchased a set of 5 string electric bass string and put them on a squire 4 string electric bass to achieve 5ths tuning . i found it to be to much distance to want to use for playing . stop at cello for 5ths tuning imho

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    Default Re: Fifths on bass?

    I'd imagine that the OP might have trouble getting a good sounding low-C with CGDAE tuning on a 28" scale, if that's the C below the E of a standard four-string bass. While there are many electric basses of 30" scale, they are mostly four strings and even the E string on a 30" bass can get flubby sounding. Five string basses with a low B string are rarely less than 34" and many players prefer an even longer scale.
    FCGDA might be workable on a 28" scale, if the CGDA were in the same octave as cello tuning.

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  22. #17
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    Default Re: Fifths on bass?

    Yes, I suggested a possible FCGD(A) tuning in the original post for a short scale (28") 4/5 string bass. Not sure if anyone has tried that.
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    Default Re: Fifths on bass?

    I am primarily a tune/melody player - mandolin is my best, but I mess about with a fiddle, a tenor banjo, an octave mandola and soon to acquire a "guit'zouki" (carved top and back, f-holes, like a jazz guitar) - all in GDAE. That's where I am most comfortable. Never got on with a 6-string guitar really, but have tried.

    I picked up a Warwick 5-string bass second-hand, and used it to make simple "backing-tracks" on a 4-track tape machine.

    But - for fun - I have re-strung it in 5'ths - CGDAE - familiar fretboard - e-mailed Newtone (http://www.newtonestrings.com/) with my idea, and they sent me a set of strings that play brilliantly ... nothing has snapped and there's no buzz on sloppy strings, and the neck hasn't buckled either.

    I'm not a bass player really, but I can play simple accompanying stuff with this - it's quite fun. I'm sure you could do a traditional 4-string bass in GDAE too.

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    Default Re: Fifths on bass?

    tobyb - what scale length is your Warwick? Which strings did you use (gauges)? I'm curious. Thanks for your reply!
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    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fifths on bass?

    Quote Originally Posted by tobyb View Post
    ...I'm sure you could do a traditional 4-string bass in GDAE too.
    Well, put the third string (A) of a "normal"-tuned bass in the fourth string position, tune it a full tone low to G. The second string is already D, put it in the third string position. Put the first string (G) in the second string position, tune it up a full tone to A. Now you need a first string, and you could investigate guitar sixth (E) strings, if you can find one that will stretch over the extended scale of a bass.

    Might be do-able, though I wouldn't.
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    Registered User John Flynn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fifths on bass?

    I tried it a couple years ago. I calculated what the string sizes needed to be, custom ordered them and strung a Yamaha electric bass GDAE. It was fun to mess around with, but I think it would take some real dedication to get good at it. I have seen some videos online of really good players making it sound awesome. If I were going to do it again, I would get the shortest scale bass I could find.

    It seems to work well with a completely different approach to bass accompaniment than standard tuning. If you are just trying to play standard bass lines, standard tuning is easier. But the fifths tuning really facilitates doing chords and finger picking. It's a whole different sound. Of course you can do chords in standard tuning, but they seem to sound a lot better in fifths.

    My other experience with this is I played a church service once where two music ensembles from different parishes were combined for one special event. Their "bass player" was trained in cello, and he had what was essentially a fretted electric cello. He had taken an electric bass body, had a much shorter neck made for it and tuned it CGDA. He played standard bass lines, not chords, and he sounded darn good.

  27. #22

    Default Re: Fifths on bass?

    Try 40 60 90 135 for cgda or fcgd with 25 40 60 90
    I have that on a 34 scale
    It would work on a shorter scale but will have less tension
    Hofner strings are 35-90 i think

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