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Thread: How do you play a "dark" vs. "brighter" tone?

  1. #1

    Default How do you play a "dark" vs. "brighter" tone?

    Reading up in some theory and am drawing a blank (hard to "read" music!)

    The author shows two measures of exactly the same notes, and under the first measure states "darker tone", and under the second measure states "brighter tone".

    So this is all about coloring the tone. The author says: "...when you modify tone color, an expressive gesture gains even more clout." and "leaving the tone color the same for both volume levels would make a drab effect, but darkening the tone for the forte and brightening it for the piano dramatizes the contrast, drenching it with character". I'll say this, if they guy wrote for a cook book he'd make me mighty hungry.

    Anyway, he's drawing a distinction between darkening and brightening the tone as a different adjustment than volume. So, anyone have examples somewhere and how that sounds on a mando?

    Thanks,
    Patrick

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    Unfamous String Buster Beanzy's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you play a "dark" vs. "brighter" tone?

    Rough guidelines
    Brighter: don't angle the pick & pick more towards the bridge.
    Darker:up the fingerboard and maybe allow the pick to hit the strings at more of an angle.
    Eoin



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    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you play a "dark" vs. "brighter" tone?

    The way I try to do this is to adjust where I pick on the strings. For brighter tone I move towards the bridge, for darker tone I move over the sound hole away from the bridge.
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    formerly Philphool Phil Goodson's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you play a "dark" vs. "brighter" tone?

    Darker can also be enhanced by 'addressing' the string (placing the pick against) and then 'picking through' the string, rather than 'striking' the string with the pick.
    Phil

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    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you play a "dark" vs. "brighter" tone?

    I turn the lights off.
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    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you play a "dark" vs. "brighter" tone?

    I'm with the guys that move toward the bridge for a brighter tone (sul ponticello) and toward the fingerboard for a darker, warmer tone (sul tasto). Same as on violin or guitar.

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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you play a "dark" vs. "brighter" tone?

    Darker = towards the headstock. Brighter = towards the bridge. I can't think of any other way of getting the different tones implied. It's a widely used technique,even in Bluegrass music,especially when using tremolo. If you begin a tremolo passage either at the top (head) or at the bottom (bridge) & move the opposite way,it almost sounds,like a 'slide' as the tone changes
    & can be quite effective,
    Ivan
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    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you play a "dark" vs. "brighter" tone?

    Quote Originally Posted by mrmando View Post
    I turn the lights off.
    Either that, or change picks...

    the world is better off without bad ideas, good ideas are better off without the world

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    Default Re: How do you play a "dark" vs. "brighter" tone?

    I'm with the guys that move toward the bridge for a brighter tone (sul ponticello) and toward the fingerboard for a darker, warmer tone (sul tasto).
    I guess the general musical terms are met.(allico) and dolce
    But unless you are able to quickly change between a metal and a rubber pick, the bridge/fingerboard-solution seems to me the most feasible.

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    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you play a "dark" vs. "brighter" tone?

    There is a fiddle tune "Grumbling Old Man Growling Old Woman" that I play, where I switch off dark and bright. Its fairly obvious - not at all subtle. (But a whole lot of fun.)

    And there is a great O'Carolan tune called "The Fairy Queen" that has four distinct sections, like an argument in four parts "...that said, ...besides which, ....and furthermore..." I like to do the fourth section a little brighter than the others.
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    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you play a "dark" vs. "brighter" tone?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidKOS View Post
    I'm with the guys that move toward the bridge for a brighter tone (sul ponticello) and toward the fingerboard for a darker, warmer tone (sul tasto). Same as on violin or guitar.
    I didn't know there was a term for it. Cool. I suppose I should have known.
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    mandolin slinger Steve Ostrander's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you play a "dark" vs. "brighter" tone?

    Dark? Bright? What the heck does that mean? That terminology makes no sense to me. Picking towards the bridge is "twangier" and picking towards the neck is "fuller" to me.
    Living’ in the Mitten

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    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you play a "dark" vs. "brighter" tone?

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    I didn't know there was a term for it. Cool. I suppose I should have known.
    I just apply musical terms to mandolin as if it was a violin, classical guitar, or other more typical classical instrument. Sul tasto and sul ponticello have been in use for centuries!

    And anything Italian, like musical terms, seems to fit the mandolin so well, too!

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    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you play a "dark" vs. "brighter" tone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Ostrander View Post
    Dark? Bright? What the heck does that mean? That terminology makes no sense to me. Picking towards the bridge is "twangier" and picking towards the neck is "fuller" to me.
    Which indeed it is, but there is an established musical terminology for such things, and "twangy" isn't part of that vocabulary...although perhaps it should be.

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    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you play a "dark" vs. "brighter" tone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Ostrander View Post
    Dark? Bright? What the heck does that mean? That terminology makes no sense to me. Picking towards the bridge is "twangier" and picking towards the neck is "fuller" to me.
    I think you are hearing it right. Though small moves towards or away from the bridge can just add some expressiveness to the playing. Don't have to go full twang. That is what the banjo is for.
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    Default Re: How do you play a "dark" vs. "brighter" tone?

    I use a rest stroke for a darker tone.
    Steve



    "They're approaching. That's very forward of them."

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  26. #17

    Default Re: How do you play a "dark" vs. "brighter" tone?

    I agree that if it is strictly trebly vs bass then moving the picking area toward versus away from the bridge will produce the change. But I am wondering if the author the OP refers to might be after something different. Perhaps darker vs. brighter tone refers to differences in "expressiveness", for want of a better term. That is, could the reference be more about differences in phrasing than differences strictly in tonal quality?
    Last edited by jshane; Jan-13-2016 at 1:07pm. Reason: spelling...sign

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    Default Re: How do you play a "dark" vs. "brighter" tone?

    for darker softer finger pressure and a rounded point picking or to the center of the string scale length-ie over or near the extension
    brighter=toward the bridge, sharper point pick

    angle of attack of pick to string too

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    Default Re: How do you play a "dark" vs. "brighter" tone?

    Like most folks have said towards and away from the bridge is the most straightforward way to affect the tone with respect to brigher/darker, but I also this pick angle plays as a role, how the strings are attacked, how tightly/loosely the pick is held, etc. There are a lot of ways to affect tone. Think of Grisman's "scratchy" tone that he gets on the low strings. Doesn't really fall into the category of bright/dark but its a good example of how attack/pick angle can affect tone.

  30. #20
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you play a "dark" vs. "brighter" tone?

    My experience of pick angle is that it impacts the "intimacy" of the sound, a hard thing to describe.

    I especially experience this on my resonator. Because of the extreme dynamic range of the thing, I can achieve "normal" volume with a light touch. By changing the pick angle I can get the instrument to "whisper", "talk" or "broadcast", with minimal effect on volume. Its not a volume difference, it is something like a timbre difference where one feels the instrument is talking only to you as a love, or as a friend, or on the other hand, making a speech to strangers. Taking your hand, shaking your hand, fist bumping, or waving.

    I obviously don't have a better way to describe it, but I have used it to incredible effect.
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  32. #21
    Registered User foldedpath's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you play a "dark" vs. "brighter" tone?

    I might be in the minority here, but I don't like the sound of my mandolin when picking near the bridge, compared to the sweeter, fuller tone at the end of the fingerboard. For me, that's the fundamental tone of my mandolin, so I don't alter it by picking near the bridge. I'm just not a fan of the tone down there. It might just be this particular instrument, I dunno.

    There is a secondary factor when picking near the bridge because the strings are stiffer, so the picking technique has to be adjusted slightly. I can only do certain techniques like Irish treble ornaments when I practice on one consistent area of the string without shifting around too much.

    So when I want some variety along the bright/dark spectrum, I change the angle of the pick attack against the string. I usually have the angle a bit more full on the upper notes on the E strings, so they don't sound too thin. And sometimes the opposite on the G and D strings, where a flatter/sharper attack angle can help bring out the growl in those strings.

    There are other sounds you can get with angled pick attack too, like a hard scraping or soft whispery sound with an extreme angle on the pick. Mike Marshall does that, and I think it sounds great as an occasional special effect. You can also get a variation of "dark" with a very small amount of palm damping over the saddle to kill the upper harmonics. Although I don't usually do that on mandolin... that's more of a guitar thing.

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  34. #22
    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you play a "dark" vs. "brighter" tone?

    Quote Originally Posted by jshane View Post
    But I am wondering if the author the OP refers to might be after something different. Perhaps darker vs. brighter tone refers to differences in "expressiveness", for want of a better term.
    Perhaps, then he could have used words like dolce (sweet), secco (dry), etc.

    http://www.musictheory.org.uk/res-mu...ical-terms.php

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossa...al_terminology

    http://www.drewfennell.com/Resources...ical_Terms.pdf

    We're not re-inventing the wheel here.

    Quote Originally Posted by foldedpath View Post
    I might be in the minority here, but I don't like the sound of my mandolin when picking near the bridge, compared to the sweeter, fuller tone at the end of the fingerboard. For me, that's the fundamental tone of my mandolin, so I don't alter it by picking near the bridge..
    That explains why so many mandolinists play almost over the fingerboard.

  35. #23
    Middle-Aged Old-Timer Tobin's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you play a "dark" vs. "brighter" tone?

    Quote Originally Posted by foldedpath View Post
    I might be in the minority here, but I don't like the sound of my mandolin when picking near the bridge, compared to the sweeter, fuller tone at the end of the fingerboard. For me, that's the fundamental tone of my mandolin, so I don't alter it by picking near the bridge. I'm just not a fan of the tone down there. It might just be this particular instrument, I dunno.
    We're in the minority together, then. For me, I think it comes down to past experience. My starter mandolin had no depth of tone, and always sounded bright and tinny. Once I got into higher-end mandolins, I craved the deeper, sweeter, more resonant tone that comes from picking further up. I prefer the area around the 24th fret (or where the 24th fret would be if mine had one; I like my 22-fret abbreviated extension). Nice harmonic-based overtones up there. Down near the bridge, all I get is a brash clangy sound.

    Anyway, some folks may like a bright sound. Or they may want to temporarily swap between picking near the bridge and higher up as part of an expression like JeffD uses in particular tunes. For me, that bright tinny sound just reminds me of a cheap mandolin and I don't want to hear it coming from my mandolin. Not at all, not even one tiny bit.

  36. #24
    Registered User SincereCorgi's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you play a "dark" vs. "brighter" tone?

    I would think that something like sul pontincello or sul tasto, on violin, are drastic enough color differences to be almost a special effect and beyond the scope of 'dark/bright'. Frankly, I think dark/bright is mostly equipment and setup, and you can't do that much to effect them, particularly between two measures (unless you have effects pedals or pickup switch), i.e. There's no 'dark' in the top couple octaves a flute and not much bright in the bottom octave. On mandolin, I think the closest you could get would be deciding to play a passage way up on the D string instead of the E in order to get a warmer sound. You could argue that the E and D strings are different pieces of equipment.

  37. #25
    Unfamous String Buster Beanzy's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you play a "dark" vs. "brighter" tone?

    If I didn't practice playing sp & st then I'd be a bit stuck when it comes to playing many tunes how the composers wrote them. I certainly wouldn't be able to get the best tone from either if I just wrote them off and never practiced with the aim of continually improving the tone I get. Also as well as being rehearsed in getting good tone from wherever I pick, sometimes I have to be able to make it sound nasty as that's what sounds right in the context of the tune and arrangement.
    Eoin



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