I know there are other shapes, I mean why are just two really popular? Does their shape give them better sound? How come the cheese slice isn't popular? (because it's ugly, but as an example, it seems just 2 or 3 basic styles are the norm.)
I know there are other shapes, I mean why are just two really popular? Does their shape give them better sound? How come the cheese slice isn't popular? (because it's ugly, but as an example, it seems just 2 or 3 basic styles are the norm.)
Right on!
If I were to build a mandolin I'd want it to be shaped such that when I'm sitting down the mandolin would sit on my right leg just like my electric guitar does, without having to fuss with the mandolin to keep it from scooting around all the time. I hate to say it but, for me, the standard solid-body Strat-style electric guitar body shape is nearly ideal for stability and ease of playing, it just sits there and doesn't try to squirm away like mandolins do. Of course the guitar weighs a ton too, and it isn't top-heavy like my mandolin or some of the old 1890s thin-rim banjos I used to have, so the Strat body shape doesn't even need a strap, it's very stable as-is. So... if I were to build a custom mandolin... it'd probably end up looking like a slightly-scaled-down electric guitar shape... reinventing the wheel no doubt... don't know if that would be acoustically-good... maybe, maybe not. Would definitely further confuse non-musician audiences who sometimes already think mandolins are guitars or ukuleles.
The two main shapes are popular because they are traditional. Gibson did some heavy, heavy marketing back in the early 1900s to establish their mandolin design as the way mandolins should look. And it worked, insofar as the mandolin orchestras and mandolin craze of the early 20th century went. But then mandolins fell out of style.
It was really Bill Monroe who popularized it again. The F-style mandolin shape has been, and continues to be today, the most sought-after shape, due to generations of players wanting that look. And let's be honest: the points and scrolls on an F-style mandolin are very artistic and reminiscent of an idealized past. They are classic looking. People just love the shape and the tradition behind it. A styles are popular because they are simple and elegant (not to mention cheaper, LOL).
But that doesn't, of course, mean that other shapes can't be used. Previous examples in this thread illustrate that quite clearly. These new shapes just haven't caught on in the mandolin world because they aren't traditional. And quite frankly, I think most of them lack imagination. The electric guitar world has already gone through the weird shape phase, and was popularized by rock stars who wanted the freakiest-looking guitar (hey, I had both an Explorer and flying-V electric guitars in the '80s so I could look just like my Metallica heroes).
The problem is, mandolin players by and large don't care for that. The type of music most associated with mandolin playing is traditional music, and most mandolin players want a traditional instrument. And I hate to say it like this, but I think it also has to do with the fact that mandolin players tend to be older and more mature than the hordes of teenage guitar players. Freaky shapes work for guitar because teens like a wild and crazy look to match their wild and crazy music. Older folks who play traditional music think it's just silly. (OK, there were lots of generalizations in there, but I think there's truth to it.) Not to mention the fact that electric guitar shapes don't affect acoustic sound, whereas mandolins are primarily acoustic instruments.
If you want to create new and bizarre mandolin shapes, go for it! You'll have a very limited market, and a lot of people will frown on strange shapes, but you might just stumble on something that "clicks" with people. There's no way to know unless you try. Of course, you'll also have to do a lot of experimentation on how they sound, and tweak the design accordingly.
Look, that has been around for years. It doesn't make sense that A stands for something and F stands for something but H, K, U, etc. don't. It was a guess on someone's part. There's no documentation from Orville that supports it. You're on the largest repository of mandolin information in the world. I hate seeing misinformation taken as fact. if anyone could ever prove that Orville named those style bodies those names I'd be ecstatic. Thus far there is no proof.
"It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
--M. Stillion
"Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
--J. Garber
Actually there was some method to Gibson's madness at times. The A and F style existed before the company by the way. The letters used after the company started fall into two camps. Those that are descriptive and those that are not. The A, F, H, K, L, U (these letters might have existed in Orville's work) don't describe anything I can see. On the other hand the GB, MB, RB, and TB designations do. Like any manufacturer you have to have a way of cataloging the items you sell. Gibson was just doing what companies did then. Using the alphabet as a designation works for a while until you create more than 26 products.
"It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
--M. Stillion
"Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
--J. Garber
You can make any design you can dream up. Whether it sounds good or not will likely depend on your sound chamber and how well your top vibrates (Disclaimer: I'm not a luthier).
I tend to like different designs. I'm a fan of Rigel's offerings and would like to someday own a CT model, but I haven't stumbled onto one when I had the disposable funds yet, and I'm to a point where I pretty much refuse to buy without playing except in the rarest of situations, which is admittedly limiting. I own a pancake model, a Mandobird, and a National RM-1. Steve Sorensen and Max Girouard are making some awesome looking and sounding non-traditional mandolins. That said, I think the various fruit/food designs are cool, but can't imagine ever buying one. James Condino's Cricket model is very cool, and I probably would buy one of those if it sounded/played as good as it looked (they may well, I've never actually played one). I also like some of the unusual finishes (blue burst, green burst, and really like Weber's Black Ice).
Bill Monroe set the standard with his F style Loar, and that style (and the scroll-less A style variation) are what sell the best. Mandolin is already a small niche market when compared to guitar, and "unique" designs shrink that market further. So, if you want to make a living building mandolins, there are definitely some considerations there. If you're building for fun, do whatever you'd like!
Oh, and Roger Siminoff's book will likely answer many of your Questions regarding measurements, graduations, etc...
Chuck
Jim
My Stream on Soundcloud
19th Century Tunes
Playing lately:
1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1
Post them as you find them. I just ran through what I remembered seeing. There are a few I can't find.
"It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
--M. Stillion
"Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
--J. Garber
Another thing to think about in creating a mandolin is what if it sounds lousy with the new configuration. You just spent months and hundreds hand carving something that is now essentially kindling.
Jim
My Stream on Soundcloud
19th Century Tunes
Playing lately:
1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1
The more I see those 2 points, the more I want one. Though Magnus that first electric is very very cool
Kala tenor ukulele, Mandobird, Godin A8, Dobro Mandolin, Gold Tone mandola, Gold Tone OM, S'oarsey mandocello, Gold Tone Irish tenor banjo, Gold Tone M bass, Taylor 214 CE Koa, La Patrie Concert CW, Fender Strat powered by Roland, Yamaha TRBX174 bass, Epiphone ES-339 with GK1
Nice idea, but the big man told me that the K designation was much more simple: K as in its my company and I'm Kim Breedlove! The shape origins come from a very similar ( and extremely uncomfortable) shaped guitar that they made at the time and that after hand carving over 200 traditional F5 scrolls for another manufacturer, he never wanted to carve a scroll again and needed a design that was easy to manufacture.
Trying to build a nice mandolin is a completely different conversation from trying to manufacture them every day for a larger market utilizing other laborers. Once they are built, trying to sell them in a market that is for the most part very traditional is a whole different story.
"
If you want to create new and bizarre mandolin shapes, go for it! You'll have a very limited market, and a lot of people will frown on strange shapes, but you might just stumble on something that "clicks" with people. There's no way to know unless you try. Of course, you'll also have to do a lot of experimentation on how they sound, and tweak the design accordingly."
I'm not interested in selling anything. It would be for fun. Anything I do I do for fun, no other reason. :-)
Rogue A-style Mandolin
Lyon and Healy Bowlback Mandolin
Kala Soprano Ukulele
Oscar Schmidt Mandriola
...so far...
Speaking of oddballs: has the Giacomel already been shown? Might be conidered an F-style, but a heavily truncated one!
Bookmarks