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Thread: Mandola body, 19.5-20 inch scale neck - please give your opinions

  1. #1

    Default Mandola body, 19.5-20 inch scale neck - please give your opinions

    Hi,

    Recently I'm thinking more and more about instrument which will combine mandola and tenor guitar in one. What I mean is something like Gibson Tenor Lute, but with 4 courses (8 strings). So mandola body with f holes + tenor neck.
    In theory if I use mandolin strings and CGDA tuning this should be nice instrument - all tenor guitar possibilities + capoed on 7th fret it is essentially a mandolin.

    What do you think? Am I missing something? Do you think it will sound good? I've heard opinions that tenor lutes sound weak, but again, this is about 4-strings ones.

    I also see that those tenor lutes are not easy to find + I have to pay more just because it's an old Gibson. Do you know any luthiers out there who can build such an instrument?

    Best,
    Roman

  2. #2
    Middle-Aged Old-Timer Tobin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandola body, 19.5-20 inch scale neck - please give your opin

    I'm curious what your goal is here. What is it that you want to achieve that you can't get from a standard mandola? Is it that you just want a longer scale? If so, why? Do you just like the longer scale, or something else?

    The scale length you're talking about is more in line with an octave mandolin. So really the instrument you're seeking already exists in various formats. You should be able to buy an octave mandolin and use custom string gauges to tune it up from the low GDAE up to CGDA. It will give you the scale length you want, the tuning you want, the double courses, and a mandolin-family shape. I know that Weber, for example, makes a 20-inch scale OM, as well as 22".

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    '`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`' Jacob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandola body, 19.5-20 inch scale neck - please give your opin

    I have a Fylde Octave Mandola with a 20 15/16 inch scale.
    It is tuned to CGDA and and works very well strung with a regular mandolin string set. (NFI)

  5. #4
    Middle-Aged Old-Timer Tobin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandola body, 19.5-20 inch scale neck - please give your opin

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I have a Fylde Octave Mandola with a 20 15/16 inch scale.
    It is tuned to CGDA and and works very well strung with a regular mandolin string set. (NFI)
    Do you have any problems finding mandolin strings long enough for that?

  6. #5
    Registered User Steve Baker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandola body, 19.5-20 inch scale neck - please give your opin

    I've had more than one Fylde octave mandola. Strings at that length are no problem. Just order ball end guitar strings. Just Strings, who advertise here, has a house brand that I like quite a bit.
    Steve

  7. #6

    Default Re: Mandola body, 19.5-20 inch scale neck - please give your opin

    Quote Originally Posted by Tobin View Post
    I'm curious what your goal is here. What is it that you want to achieve that you can't get from a standard mandola? Is it that you just want a longer scale? If so, why? Do you just like the longer scale, or something else?

    The scale length you're talking about is more in line with an octave mandolin. So really the instrument you're seeking already exists in various formats. You should be able to buy an octave mandolin and use custom string gauges to tune it up from the low GDAE up to CGDA. It will give you the scale length you want, the tuning you want, the double courses, and a mandolin-family shape. I know that Weber, for example, makes a 20-inch scale OM, as well as 22".
    Well the goal is to have 'extended mandolin' - I like mandolin strings, I haven't tried mandola which I'd like to play. I do really like longer scale length for CGDA tuning. Also, if the body is small enough - I can capo on 7th fret and have all mandolin possibilities (well, not highest frets, of course).

    I'll check Weber's octave mandos, thanks!

  8. #7
    '`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`' Jacob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandola body, 19.5-20 inch scale neck - please give your opin

    Regular generic mandolin sets have been long enough.

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  10. #8

    Default Re: Mandola body, 19.5-20 inch scale neck - please give your opin

    I have a 19" scale mandola. After trying different tunings( gdae, cgda, etc.) and string gauges( mandola sets, OM sets, TI 174) I find that using mandolin strings and tuning to DDAAEEBB - a full step above mandola - gives the most pleasant tone. For mandola tuning - CCGGDDAA - I would suggest staying at 17" or under scale length.

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  12. #9
    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandola body, 19.5-20 inch scale neck - please give your opin

    The Gibson tenor lute was a hybrid of a mandola and a tenor banjo. It came in four-string and eight-string (rare) varieties.

    As far as I know, it used tenor banjo strings and was tuned CGDA like a mandola or tenor banjo. At least that's where I have mine tuned.

    If one wanted to experiment with the sound, one could get a short-scale octave mandolin, such as the Trinity College or Gold Tone, and string it CGDA with tenor banjo strings. Of course, these instruments are flat-top, oval-hole design, not the carved-top, f-hole design of the tenor lute -- or your hypothetical instrument.

    The tenor lute wasn't a success (though designed by Lloyd Loar, reputedly), but there's no reason a modern version wouldn't work.
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    Registered User j. condino's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandola body, 19.5-20 inch scale neck - please give your opin

    The air cavity volume of the box is as important as the scale length. for a given tuning. I use a 16" L5 body for my octave mandolins with a 22.5 scale length. Both the scale and body size are a bit larger than many people use, but the sound is huge worth it to me. No matter how much you want it to work, a mandola body with that scale is never going to sound the same.

    Whenever I am trying to get in the ballpark for a scale length and tuning, I spend a lot of time with a similar sized instrument using a capo and many different tunings trying to get close to my end goal. Most of the time it is surprising how much one fret difference will make- an instrument can go from completely dead to explosively alive or vise versa.

    j.
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  15. #11

    Default Re: Mandola body, 19.5-20 inch scale neck - please give your opin

    Quote Originally Posted by grandcanyonminstrel View Post
    .. a mandola body with that scale is never going to sound the same...
    www.condino.com
    So is there big dependency between scale length and body size? I mean, I can imagine that mandola body will not work for octave mandolin tuning (low GDAE), but if I use mandolin strings and tune it to CGDA - should it work? or is it better to get the octave mandolin body size even for higher tuning?

  16. #12
    Registered User j. condino's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandola body, 19.5-20 inch scale neck - please give your opin

    The scale length, the body size, the tuning, and the manner of construction are all very closely related. Most of the time, the reason we have traditional instrument configurations is because, much to the dismay of creative and innovative builders throughout history, the ones that we are familiar with are the ones that actually worked as highly functional musical instruments. The others may have made similar sounds, but failed to hit the mark.

    If you can imagine it, one of us has built it or several versions of it, but that does not mean that they were commercially successful or met the needs of musicians. I'll be the first t admit that I LOVE experimentation and pushing the limits and I recognize that the crusty crusty old guys who today are our reference standards were out there in their own time, but in keeping the tradition alive and growing, I also hate to see folks wast 200 hours and a pocket full of $$$$ on something that has a low probability of success.



    j.
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  17. #13

    Default Re: Mandola body, 19.5-20 inch scale neck - please give your opin

    This one - http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/95370#95370 looks pretty close to what I have in mind. You see that it's current owner plays it in CGDA and I love the sound.

    Also I noted that body size is notable larger than one of Gibson Tenor Lute (13.5'' wide vs 11'' if I'm not mistaken).
    Last edited by Roman Pekar; Feb-20-2016 at 5:31pm.

  18. #14
    Registered User Andy Marshall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandola body, 19.5-20 inch scale neck - please give your opin

    Stefan Sobell's standard mandola has a scale length of 20.5". I used to own one, and it was, hands down, one of the best-sounding mandolas I have ever encountered. For what I do, it put my Kimble to shame. The only reason I sold it is that when I last visited Stefan, I played a new mandola he had just built with a Sitka spruce top (as opposed to his standard German spruce), and it sounded even better than mine did, so I sold mine and put in an order for a new one.

    From my experience, the longer the scale length (within reason), the more sustain and harmonic complexity (read as "shimmer") in the sound. The shorter the scale length, the more "focus" in the sound. I don't know if any of these terms mean anything to some of you, but they are the best words I can come up with to describe what I hear.

    Mind you, my current main mandola has a comparatively short scale length of 16.125", yet still manages a surprisingly high amount of harmonic content. It was built by James Curtis of Port Townsend, WA, who regularly seems to defy the rules that limit most other builders. He's as much a wizard as a luthier.

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    Registered User 40bpm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandola body, 19.5-20 inch scale neck - please give your opin

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Marshall View Post
    Mind you, my current main mandola has a comparatively short scale length of 16.125", yet still manages a surprisingly high amount of harmonic content. It was built by James Curtis of Port Townsend, WA, who regularly seems to defy the rules that limit most other builders. He's as much a wizard as a luthier.
    My apologies to the original poster, but I just wanted to agree with Andy about luthier James Curtis.

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    Butcherer of Songs Rob Zamites's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandola body, 19.5-20 inch scale neck - please give your opin

    My next instrument build is 19" scale length, and I'm hoping it sounds as good as a Sobell
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  22. #17

    Default Re: Mandola body, 19.5-20 inch scale neck - please give your opin

    I purchased a Pango Octave Mandolin.It has a 20 in scale.It actually sounded very weak.I put on some Mandola strings and tune it at 444 hz after many experiments.And I mean too tell you it sounds fantastic tuned ccggddaa. I generally make my own music up. It has a unique sound I like very strong and clear. I love it.f holes and a beautiful instrument.1,850 Including shipping. Direct from the factory in China. This was in the middle of 2021 I received it five months after I ordered it. I had to make it.

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  24. #18

    Default Re: Mandola body, 19.5-20 inch scale neck - please give your opin

    I am tuning at 432 hz now.I just don’t like 440 hz.So the hz are irrelevant. If I didn’t mention it, I did use lite gauge Mandola strings.

  25. #19

    Default Re: Mandola body, 19.5-20 inch scale neck - please give your opin

    Of course, I’m talking to y’all seven years after the fact. Hope you all are well!

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