how even can I expect to get an amber shellac finish?

[alfie]

I'm finishing up my next mandolin, and I can't quite decide if I'm happy with the colour on top. It's padded un-dyed shellac over sitka. I finished my last instrument in exactly the same way with great results, but that was dark cedar and a hell of a lot more forgiving to finish. Is this just how a hand rubbed finish over spruce looks? Should I knock it all back and start with a clear sealer? I've included stacks of photos in different light so you can get a sense of how it looks, it's even from some angles and a bit mottled from others. It would get another few coats and a polish if I decide to go with it.

[sunburst]

How even do you want it? It looks fine to me. It looks hand done. "Perfectly" even would look more like plastic.
For a more even look, you could spray the shellac, or you could "tone" (amber dye) the wood to even out the color. When there is color in a clear finish material, any variation in thickness results in variation in the amount of color, so the more even the film thickness the more even color, and spraying is one of the easiest ways to get an even film thickness.

[Mandoplumb]

I'm not a builder so my opinion is not as knowledgeable as Sunburst's but I agree with him, it looks good to me

[tom.gibson]

Just to confuse you with a different perspective... I've been through the same difficulty with similar results to yours and decided I couldn't live with the blotchiness (particularly around the fingerboard, like on yours). I ended up stripping the top back and spraying some tinted shellac coats for colour and seal, then topping with Tru Oil. I was happy with my decision.

Nice instrument, by the way!

[Marty Jacobson]

Applying the color in a greater number of less-tinted layers will give you a more even finish, whether applied by hand or sprayed. But I agree with John, if you want to do it by hand, accept it looking like it was done by hand. David Pye calls it "the fingerprints of the craftsman". It certainly looks workmanlike and skillful, not haphazard at all. Plus, you're doing it a disservice by showing it off in the sunlight. A lot of good maker's instruments show minor imperfections when inspected under that unforgiving spotlight.

[darylcrisp]

Just to confuse you with a different perspective... I've been through the same difficulty with similar results to yours and decided I couldn't live with the blotchiness (particularly around the fingerboard, like on yours). I ended up stripping the top back and spraying some tinted shellac coats for colour and seal, then topping with Tru Oil. I was happy with my decision.

Nice instrument, by the way!

i'm trying to learn about finishes, how does one strip this finish back?

**nice looking mandolin btw, i actually like the look you have there. love the headstock shape and design**

d

[tom.gibson]

i'm trying to learn about finishes, how does one strip this finish back?

Alcohol.

[Bill Snyder]

Shellac at this stage is stripped fairly easy with straight alcohol, at least that is how I have done it. You have to do a bit of sanding to finish it all up.

[Bob Clark]

I think it's beautiful. If I were you, I would be proud of a job well done.

[darylcrisp]

Alcohol.

can the alcohol effect any of the glued areas-binding?

thanks
d

[Bill Snyder]

It shouldn't.

[Ivan Kelsall]

It definitely looks fine to my eyes & Bob Clark got it right ! - Well done,
Ivan

[alfie]

Thanks for the encouragement, it's so easy to get caught up in nit-picking! If it's good enough for John and Marty, I'll stick with it. The fear was that anyone who knows will look at it and think "Ah, he forgot to ____".

For a more even look, you could spray the shellac, or you could "tone" (amber dye) the wood to even out the color. When there is color in a clear finish material, any variation in thickness results in variation in the amount of color, so the more even the film thickness the more even color, and spraying is one of the easiest ways to get an even film thickness.

I do have access to spraying kit, I think I'll try laying down the first few coats like that next time. I've always been a bit intimidated by the setting up and such but I think I need to grow up...

Applying the color in a greater number of less-tinted layers will give you a more even finish, whether applied by hand or sprayed. But I agree with John, if you want to do it by hand, accept it looking like it was done by hand. David Pye calls it "the fingerprints of the craftsman". It certainly looks workmanlike and skillful, not haphazard at all. Plus, you're doing it a disservice by showing it off in the sunlight. A lot of good maker's instruments show minor imperfections when inspected under that unforgiving spotlight.

Phew! Thanks. 'The nature and art of workmanship' right? I'd love to bother you about that sort of subject in a month or so, I'm writing my dissertation which is pretty heavily influenced by that book, and your work.

[HoGo]

Darker grades of shellac are almost impossible to apply evenly by hand (french polishing). You can probably get better results with thinned solution and many thin applications (20 or so ) with quality brush (like spirit varnishes on violin). The unevenness of any single coat will be averaged after multiple thin layers are applied.
Classical guitar builders prefer very light shades of shellac and VERY methodical application (never concentrate too much in one spot) for FP to avoid this.

[Rob Roy]

I think it has a very nice old-world look to it. Realistically, if it gets much use, the shellac is going to take on some wear and patina as it's not the most durable finish. There's plenty of more perfect looking pac rim instruments out there on the cheap, but somehow I don't think that's what you're aiming for. Nice Work!

[alfie]

Darker grades of shellac are almost impossible to apply evenly by hand (french polishing). You can probably get better results with thinned solution and many thin applications (20 or so ) with quality brush (like spirit varnishes on violin). The unevenness of any single coat will be averaged after multiple thin layers are applied.
Classical guitar builders prefer very light shades of shellac and VERY methodical application (never concentrate too much in one spot) for FP to avoid this.

I hope to build a guitar in the near future, I may try again with the bigger surface to work on - it seems impossible to stick any kind of methodology on a mandolin's complex surface. Brushing shellac isn't something I though was possible, I'll have to do some experimenting. Ta!

[Ginridge]

Beautiful instrument! I love the double points, reminiscent of a vintage Washburn or Regal from the 20s and 30s.

I do see what you are referring to. It looks like the shellac is unevenly applied, though not so much that it is an issue. I've been doing quite a bit of french polish on vintage instruments lately and I've found that to be a very good method of creating an even color. You mentioned that this was "padded un-dyed shellac". Does that mean you were french polishing or simply rubbing a shellac coated rag onto the mandolin? I could see where just rubbing it on without using the french polishing technique (which puts on many very thin coats) might cause an evenness problem.

Even so, great work!